PennKev
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- Sep 9, 2006
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No, that is rather atypical.
Dry fly only guys....let's talk.
- Thread starter dudemanspecial
- Start date
No, that is rather atypical.
pcray1231
Well-known member
The rich streams just turn off for long periods. The fish are well fed, they don't have to be all that opportunistic, they can get all they need in that 1 hr in the evening and overnight. Brown trout don't like bright light and they don't have to feed during the day. Yes, I'm able to nymph away and it's slow, but I can pick up a few, just like you. You can focus on the shaded areas, etc. But for me, it's why? Within a half hour drive there are lots of mountain freestoners. Some with brookies, some with browns, but all of them are under the shade of the forest with more opportunistic fish. They fish very well all day long, the hot period is often the middle of the day. A lot more small fish but if I catch 40 between 11 and 5 p.m., and 10 of them are decent, that's still more decent fish than I woulda got beating my head against the wall on the big water during the heat of the day. And you know that big stream is going to turn on in the evening, and you know about when too. It's all very predictable. Be where the fishing is best at any given time. We all talk about tactics and casting ability and what fly to use and all of that. But as far as what the #1 skill in being successful, and it ain't close, is knowing where to be and when. Set yourself up for success.
And caveat, yes, the big streams CAN be good during the day. Get a cloudy, drizzly day, and it throws the regular schedule off. My best, and some of my worst days have been like that. But yeah, those are the days where you get 50 or something on a stream like Spring, the sulpher hatch started at noon or something ridiculous under dark skies and it didn't stop till nightfall, you're just slamming them for hours and hours and hours. And if the weather is right I take my shot at that. Sometimes you think it's gonna happen all day and then it doesn't, and you feel like an idiot, but that's fishin.
As far as futility when it is on. #1. Current is your friend. It's hard to catch fish in really slow water. Try to find them rising in some current. #2. Watch close. Watch them take, or refuse, naturals. During duns they often key on movement, if so, skitter it above them, then let it drift into them. If they want it dead drifted, dead drift it, get rid of drag. Size matters. Whether it's floating high and dry, or down in the film matters. What doesn't matter as much is color.
Acristickid
Well-known member
Gotta go to know.
I’ve fished a wonderful bwo hatch and It last about 2 hours. It was so good that I stayed overnight in the areas that you were describing and came back the next day at the same time with the same conditions and the hatch never materialized.
I guess I’m old , I’ve nymphed hard-core for years and I just don’t care for it as much anymore.
This is why I have a little distain for our modern anglers. You can nymph without much experience and still be successful. They put on squirmys and a rainbow warrior and don’t even know why they’re using them other than that they are effective. Don’t seem to interested in hatch charts, watching water levels , temps and weather.
Maybe I’d nymph or swing wets, take a seat and watch the water, go out for lunch and come back later. Some days it just doesn’t happen- mostly if you go with turkey , probably best to avoid him. All this “experience ,etc” to put you into the most successful position and yet it still may not yield squat some days.
Im a journeyman fly angler , I am incredibly well traveled angler with decades of fly angling experiences. Yet I am a pedestrian caster and a crappy fly tyer but I consider myself a competent fly angler. Take pride in figuring out situations to catch fish in almost any situation. I am easily placated with just a few fish these days.
Guess if you fish long enough on your journey, you uncover your likes and dislikes, which will form your style. If such a thing exists.
Good luck and gotta go to know.
I’ve fished a wonderful bwo hatch and It last about 2 hours. It was so good that I stayed overnight in the areas that you were describing and came back the next day at the same time with the same conditions and the hatch never materialized.
I guess I’m old , I’ve nymphed hard-core for years and I just don’t care for it as much anymore.
This is why I have a little distain for our modern anglers. You can nymph without much experience and still be successful. They put on squirmys and a rainbow warrior and don’t even know why they’re using them other than that they are effective. Don’t seem to interested in hatch charts, watching water levels , temps and weather.
Maybe I’d nymph or swing wets, take a seat and watch the water, go out for lunch and come back later. Some days it just doesn’t happen- mostly if you go with turkey , probably best to avoid him. All this “experience ,etc” to put you into the most successful position and yet it still may not yield squat some days.
Im a journeyman fly angler , I am incredibly well traveled angler with decades of fly angling experiences. Yet I am a pedestrian caster and a crappy fly tyer but I consider myself a competent fly angler. Take pride in figuring out situations to catch fish in almost any situation. I am easily placated with just a few fish these days.
Guess if you fish long enough on your journey, you uncover your likes and dislikes, which will form your style. If such a thing exists.
Good luck and gotta go to know.
dudemanspecial
Well-known member
I think it's a little bit of both. I have concentrated on nymphing for so long that when I see risers I am ill prepared. The whole premise of my post is basically saying that I need more experience dry fly fishing, but don't really know how to go about it. Obviously I should try to be there when the hatches come off but what do you guys do when there isn't much activity? Do you just blind cast to likely holding areas as you would nymphing?
I have read a ton of books, but I want to pick some of the brains here. And so far I have not been disappointed.
dudemanspecial
Well-known member
Good stuff thanks. I am really getting interested in the history and nuances of fly fishing. I know you have way more experience than I do but I feel like where you are is where I am heading.
Bamboozle
Well-known member
Before I would embark on a dry fly fishing only crusade, I'd think long and hard about what you think makes you less capable on top?? Figure that out and you WILL get better fishing on the surface.
I am far from a dry fly only guy but the recommendation I'd make is focus your dedication on situations where fish are actively feeding on top and are refusing, but are not particularly put down by your offerings.
IF you are confident you have a fly and leader/tipper combo that should work, like a relentless bulldog keep casting at those "refusers" while making micro adjustments to your presentation. Do that by adjusting your casting position, casts and drift until you get that "picky eater" to grab your fly or you put him down for more than five minutes.
If you put the fish down, move to another and do the same thing until you are successful.
I can't tell you how many times in my life those micro adjustments made the difference, even at places like the Letort and no pattern, leader, tippet or fly size change was required.
Doing THAT will teach you more about dry fly fishing than anything and may help you to understand why there will be those days when some guy fishing a Humpy will out fish you matching the hatch. 😉
Good luck!
As for timing -
It was clear to me from the get go that I really only enjoyed dry fly fishing.
And I bought a book called "Meeting and Fishing the Hatches" by Charlie Meck.
Really inspired me, and helped me to become dry only.
As for fishing -
Being able to identify what's hatching, and have the proper pattern is top priority.
A lot easier to do these days with internet at your fingertips.
Casting to them properly usually takes some time and experience.
You need to become accurate enough to place the fly on the water a foot or two above there rise, and in the proper lane so that it goes right over the rise
Plus, you have to develop proper touch so that the fly lands SOFTLY on the water.
And with enough leader slack to get a drag free float.
Spring Creek and Little J are two of there best streams for sure, and I fish them often.
However, their full of wild browns that receive a tremendous amount of fishing pressure.
And you have to do everything right. No gimmes for sure.
With people I've taught to fish, I usually try to take them to stocked streams at first.
Those fish are more forgiving, and it's really nice to see people catch fish right from the beginning.
Gives therm more confidence, which is a big plus.
Hope this helps
Guess I got kinda "Pcrayey" here!
Silent Ocelot
Well-known member
Best piece of advice I've heard, possibly ever.
Shawn Joseph
Active member
@dudemanspecial you’ve gotten a lot of good advice in this thread. I too at one point years ago wanted to get better at dry fly fishing. So I concentrated on it very hard. Now I’m back to doing both dry and nymphing. Majority of a trouts life feeding is subsurface. My brain works in a way that I use the tactic that works best for the situation. I like to be in the middle. But that’s just me. If you go dry fly only for this season you’ll definitely get better at it and learn a lot about it. Do you, man! Good luck and have fun. Everyone has their own personal goals and journey.
Shawn
Shawn
I mostly fish dries, typically I go to where I know I'll have success... for example, I live here in northern VA and been fishing all winter with dries in Shenandoah national park. I catch mountain brook trout every time I go, because I know they are super opportunistic... so mountain trout are easy on the dry. No major hatches during the winter; they will still eat dries. They also have limited mobility because the water is "small", this doesn't mean I don't need to put in the work to find them.
Next, let's talk about a bit larger streams, with relatively clean water like last year I fished Conococheague in south central PA, I got a few stockers on dries... this is an even gradient, more water, relatively slow. Okay for dries / stimulators most of the time.
Next more difficult would be a larger river, like little J. Fish can spread out more, they may or may not see your fly. They may have plenty of food under the water; I haven't fished it yet so I'm not sure how easy the dry fly fishing is year round.
Lastly I'll speak about cold water spring creeks, like Mossy Creek, and Falling Springs Branch... these are the most challenging to fish in general, mostly due to vegetation catching your casts, but also there is a rich food supply under the surface... trout will not risk coming to the surface if they have plenty of food below. i'm Not saying it can't be done; but you're much more likely to get skunked.
Typically if I'm going to a more challenging stream, I bring the euro nymphing rod to avoid the skunk 'cause I almost never get skunked while euro nymphing, but it's also "too easy" to catch trout this way for me.
Happy to meet up some time, especially if it's for mountain trout 😉
There's a pretty big difference between having a small brook trout eagerly take a stimulator vs getting a bigger trout to randomly rise to your offering. In those small streams where insect hatches are sparse at best, you can have fish cooperate nicely. Now, try the same approach on a bigger water and bigger fish, there's a high probability you'll get a different result. In a river that's rich with insect life, scuds and cress bugs, there's little incentive for the fish to rise. While you might enjoy dry fly fishing, that fish is running a risk by coming to the surface. He exposes himself to any predators and that's not something a well fed fish willingly does. The majority of that fish's diet is consumed subsurface. Hours prior to a hatch the nymphs will begin to move about the bottom and then up and down in the water column. If all of the food is within a foot of the streambed, that's where the fish will be. Their goal is to eat and survive for another day.
Take a nice sunny day with intermittent hatching on the letort or penns. You see bugs in the air and some on the surface but virtually no rises. Could be the light conditions that make it difficult for the fish to see the flies on the surface but it's more likely the bulk of insect activity is close to the streambed.
You are in their world and playing their game 😁. Not saying you can't pull up a nice fish to a dry randomly when nothing else is going on but you need to learn the best times to be there for maximum success.
Spring is full of random caddis species that hatch during the day and an excellent opportunity to blind cast to likely holding water.
Take a nice sunny day with intermittent hatching on the letort or penns. You see bugs in the air and some on the surface but virtually no rises. Could be the light conditions that make it difficult for the fish to see the flies on the surface but it's more likely the bulk of insect activity is close to the streambed.
You are in their world and playing their game 😁. Not saying you can't pull up a nice fish to a dry randomly when nothing else is going on but you need to learn the best times to be there for maximum success.
Spring is full of random caddis species that hatch during the day and an excellent opportunity to blind cast to likely holding water.
mt_flyfisher
Well-known member
Some things make you just wanna fish drys.
I often wonder if the fishing is tougher when a major hatch like this happens. Too much competition? How do you get your fly to be the one they eat?
I've found, at least in the bigger streams and rivers with great hatches, the trout seem to have lockjaw before a major hatch or spinner fall starts. This is especially true when the hatch or spinner fall happens on a regular basis in the stream or river. How many times have you fished a stretch of river or stream with nothing happening. Maybe you catch a fish or two working hard by nymphing. Suddenly at zero hour, when a hatch or spinner fall starts, the stream comes alive with fish rising. They suddenly appear out of no where and seem to be rising everywhere around you. I believe if the trout (and smallies with white flies) know an easy meal is on it's way, they seem to chill until the bugs appear. NOW it's "game on" for dries!
That does happen for sure.
When things get to the point where it's quite futile for a fish to take my imitation, I'll sometimes just take a break .
And wait for the bugs thin out.
Another tactic is to fish a pattern that's larger than the naturals, so that it sticks out more.
That has worked for me a few times
wildtrout2
Well-known member
It is effective, but I only use a dry-dropper on occasion. Still, I've never had an issue with the wet breaking off of the bend of the hook, which is how I connect it.
Wet flies are usually fished suing heavier tippets like 3x or stronger for the droppers. A light tippet tied to the hook bend for a dry-dropper is likely to break when fishing wets.
wildtrout2
Well-known member
I use a 5x tippet and never had an issue with breaking. I'm usually dealing with smaller trout though. I guess everyone's experience is different.
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Swattie87
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- Joined
- May 3, 2011
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We live in such a litigious society any more. It’s sad to read things like this about litigation affecting something that’s supposed to be fun, like FFing.
I feel bad for the heavier tippet. What did it do wrong in this scenario? Maybe it gets let out on summary judgment. Let’s hope so. I like fishing heavier tippet. Where do the wet flies get off doing something like that? Jerks.
😛
