are there Land Lock Salmon in PA?
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gulfgreyhound
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It may just be semantics. The Atlantics are Landlocks one in the same fish. Sometimes : Salmo solar sebago. If they were originally from Lake Sebago stock. I think New York is stocking them to restore populations that existed ? GG
Adirondack Hatchery (518-891-3358) is located about 12 miles from the Village of Saranac Lake in Franklin County. This facility specializes in rearing landlocked Atlantic salmon for statewide distribution. Annual production averages 30,000 pounds of salmon, with most fish stocked as yearling smolts (six inches long) or as small fingerlings in the spring.
Chaz
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Land Locked Salmon are Salmo Salar Sebago
Atlantic Salmon are Salmo Salar
The only difference is the life history trait of land locked salmon not being able to run to the see. They were only found in areas that had access to the sea pre-glcial period that were cut off from that access by glaciers and other obsticles, created by the glaciers during the inter-glacial period. Found in four drainages in Maine, Sebec Lake, Sebago Lake, Grand Lake Stream, and one other place in Maine which I don't recall right now. They were spread all over Maine.
They were also indiginous to the Great Lakes and are found in the Finger Lakes and Lake Champlain in NY and other place there, incluing Otsego L.
Atlantic S. were never native to PA or any rivers to the Atlantic O. and probably weren't found south of the Connecticutt R. in CT.
Atlantic Salmon are Salmo Salar
The only difference is the life history trait of land locked salmon not being able to run to the see. They were only found in areas that had access to the sea pre-glcial period that were cut off from that access by glaciers and other obsticles, created by the glaciers during the inter-glacial period. Found in four drainages in Maine, Sebec Lake, Sebago Lake, Grand Lake Stream, and one other place in Maine which I don't recall right now. They were spread all over Maine.
They were also indiginous to the Great Lakes and are found in the Finger Lakes and Lake Champlain in NY and other place there, incluing Otsego L.
Atlantic S. were never native to PA or any rivers to the Atlantic O. and probably weren't found south of the Connecticutt R. in CT.
The Finger Lakes were originally thought to be spawning/nursery waters for LO since the Cayuga Lake tributary salmon runs stopped suddenly when the dam at Baldwinsville on the Seneca R was built in 1815. Salmon Creek going into Cayuga was named for the thick runs of salmon at one time. The LO salmon were extirpated around 1900. The original NYS salmon are thought to have lived in Lake Ontario and did not go to sea - although there were no barriers to it. The best evidence to me is that analysis of bones from Indian camps show isotope balance typical of freshwater, not marine, fish.
In my understanding, the Clear Lake Hatchery originally got its stock as Atlantic salmon from the Maine federal hatchery to re-introduce Atlantics to NYS. The current Atlantics don't have any ties to the native fish which went extinct. The Tunnison federal fisheries lab near Cortland, NY has been playing around with Atlantic salmon selection for some time now too. Lots of messing around with NYS Atlantics and I'm not sure if any Sebagos are in the mix - but who knows after around 100 years of playing around and back breeding now and again to keep the genetics good. Are they landlocked salmon since they don't go to sea? Are they Atlantic salmon since they originated from Atlantic salmon hatcheries?
Whatever you call them, it does seem like they are finally taking hold again as for the last three years the Atlantic populations have been good in both LO and the Fingers. I got an 8 lbs Atlantic on a streamer in October, 2009 in Fall Creek in Ithaca (made my day!) and then topped that with a 30" Atlantic caught on the Salmon R in August 2010. Haven't beat those two fish and Atlantics seem to be mostly a bonus fish, but you can find them if you work hard enough.
In my understanding, the Clear Lake Hatchery originally got its stock as Atlantic salmon from the Maine federal hatchery to re-introduce Atlantics to NYS. The current Atlantics don't have any ties to the native fish which went extinct. The Tunnison federal fisheries lab near Cortland, NY has been playing around with Atlantic salmon selection for some time now too. Lots of messing around with NYS Atlantics and I'm not sure if any Sebagos are in the mix - but who knows after around 100 years of playing around and back breeding now and again to keep the genetics good. Are they landlocked salmon since they don't go to sea? Are they Atlantic salmon since they originated from Atlantic salmon hatcheries?
Whatever you call them, it does seem like they are finally taking hold again as for the last three years the Atlantic populations have been good in both LO and the Fingers. I got an 8 lbs Atlantic on a streamer in October, 2009 in Fall Creek in Ithaca (made my day!) and then topped that with a 30" Atlantic caught on the Salmon R in August 2010. Haven't beat those two fish and Atlantics seem to be mostly a bonus fish, but you can find them if you work hard enough.
The Neversink Reservior has landlocked salmon. They run up into the upper Neversink to spawn, but a combination of not many fish, almost no public fishing and an Oct 15 closure makes them really tough to hook.
In my Finger Lakes experience the landlocked salmon are in fly range when the water is below 50F (which probably is the same everywhere)- which is roughly November through early May for the FL. The rest of the time they are down near the thermocline where the trollers pick them up. Miserable weather and and the famous "salmon chop" are needed to have OK fishing. The shape of the Finger Lakes means a north or south wind can generate significant wind driven currents and the salmon will stage around points waiting to ambush bait just like a trout holds in a stream. The best way to get them is with a boat and run-and-gun the hotspots until you find the fish. There are some popular spots for the shore bound angler, like Taughannock Point, Meyers Point, AES power station (warm water plume for winter and early season), and the lighthouse in Ithaca on Cayuga and the salt pier on Seneca.
Another concentrator of fish is a warm early spring rain. If 50F water is spilling into a 40F lake the fish will head to the warm water plumes at trib mouths.
Landlocks are always a bonus fish for the flyfisherman IMHO and you need to work hard to get one. They are pretty aggressive fish though and some days the trollers really hammer them. NYS has a fish ladder on Cayuga Inlet, the main spawning trib for Cayuga, where they try to count and inspect every fish heading up. One year 100% of the landlocked salmon heading up had hook scars.
In my Finger Lakes experience the landlocked salmon are in fly range when the water is below 50F (which probably is the same everywhere)- which is roughly November through early May for the FL. The rest of the time they are down near the thermocline where the trollers pick them up. Miserable weather and and the famous "salmon chop" are needed to have OK fishing. The shape of the Finger Lakes means a north or south wind can generate significant wind driven currents and the salmon will stage around points waiting to ambush bait just like a trout holds in a stream. The best way to get them is with a boat and run-and-gun the hotspots until you find the fish. There are some popular spots for the shore bound angler, like Taughannock Point, Meyers Point, AES power station (warm water plume for winter and early season), and the lighthouse in Ithaca on Cayuga and the salt pier on Seneca.
Another concentrator of fish is a warm early spring rain. If 50F water is spilling into a 40F lake the fish will head to the warm water plumes at trib mouths.
Landlocks are always a bonus fish for the flyfisherman IMHO and you need to work hard to get one. They are pretty aggressive fish though and some days the trollers really hammer them. NYS has a fish ladder on Cayuga Inlet, the main spawning trib for Cayuga, where they try to count and inspect every fish heading up. One year 100% of the landlocked salmon heading up had hook scars.
I usually catch a few landlocks at the Oak every year i go there. they are about 4-5 ponds would be called a small grilse . I have seen a huge brute caught at the Oak in the early 2000's that fish was over 20+pounds they pulled it an had it weighed ,it was hung up at Orleans Outdooors { The fomer Oak Orchard Fly shop that was owned by Rick Kustich}. I actually left an followed these guys to the shop , I had only ever seen an Atlantic in the grocery store fish cabinet where they sell shrimp, and also in books or magazines.Believe me when i tell you i have caught bucketloads of Land Locks up in Maine.
I have no problem telling the difference between a landlock and a brown trout.I have a best friend he hea s cabin on Lower Richardson 1/2 mile from Middle Dam, i also fish Upper Dam and Lower Dam,as well as Kennebago,and the Megalloway, all are excellent LandLock Salmon rivers,and the brook trout fishing is also probably the places where you might ever catch a real big brookie in their natvive range in the Lower 48.
He also has a house right on Moosehead Lake we have had many stellar days fishing the Roach,East Outlet of the Kennebec River, and The Moose river.thses are also very good Salmon rivers too.
I have yet to fish the West Branch of the Penobscot,however i have scouted that river from Ripogeous Dam quite a ways downstream, an have seen plenty of guys catching salmon , if ever there was a river that could take you back a hundred years i would say that river would be it on the East Coast.
I don't care that Landlocks are or arent native to pa, I under stand they were stocked here at some point in time possibly in several places, If i were to introduce them it would be Lake Wallenpaupack,Beltzville,Francis Walter Dam if they would keep the dam pool a lil deeper or filled, i will have to go to Raystown or get a detailed map an see about feeder streams or rivers or creeks, if thye are in there an can survive the stripers, possibly muskies? as well as other places an have an abundant baitfish population i bet they are still there maybe not a huge number but there .
Tight Wraps & Tight Lines
Rick Wallace
I have no problem telling the difference between a landlock and a brown trout.I have a best friend he hea s cabin on Lower Richardson 1/2 mile from Middle Dam, i also fish Upper Dam and Lower Dam,as well as Kennebago,and the Megalloway, all are excellent LandLock Salmon rivers,and the brook trout fishing is also probably the places where you might ever catch a real big brookie in their natvive range in the Lower 48.
He also has a house right on Moosehead Lake we have had many stellar days fishing the Roach,East Outlet of the Kennebec River, and The Moose river.thses are also very good Salmon rivers too.
I have yet to fish the West Branch of the Penobscot,however i have scouted that river from Ripogeous Dam quite a ways downstream, an have seen plenty of guys catching salmon , if ever there was a river that could take you back a hundred years i would say that river would be it on the East Coast.
I don't care that Landlocks are or arent native to pa, I under stand they were stocked here at some point in time possibly in several places, If i were to introduce them it would be Lake Wallenpaupack,Beltzville,Francis Walter Dam if they would keep the dam pool a lil deeper or filled, i will have to go to Raystown or get a detailed map an see about feeder streams or rivers or creeks, if thye are in there an can survive the stripers, possibly muskies? as well as other places an have an abundant baitfish population i bet they are still there maybe not a huge number but there .
Tight Wraps & Tight Lines
Rick Wallace
Bob,
Lol i just might head up for awhile this spring..i am hoping to go in the fall also.I just had the warrant act read at my workplace i will be losing my job along with 194 other folks,the company has a 100
+ year history an was #2 in its niche of printing,Gordon Gecko Wall Street economics put this place under not the union or the non union folks.
I plan on heading up yer way as well, maybe i can stop in and check out your shop peruse ths goodies so to speak an also shoot the bull...first things first im tyin shad flies will be Trout Speying the Delaware for shad in a few weeks, when the water reaches 50's the shad run also the quill gordons come off too gonna be a great spring to fish.
I love Maine i hope they don't get on this frack wagon, its gonna make Pa a Killzone for sure.all for the mighty dollar ..wheres the common sense?
I also love Pennsylvania too just this damn fracking has left me with a bad tatse in mouth. and i have ahorse in this race 200 acres in Clearfield county two cabins.I love the PA Wilds.
Tight Wraps & Tight Lines
Rick Wallace
Lol i just might head up for awhile this spring..i am hoping to go in the fall also.I just had the warrant act read at my workplace i will be losing my job along with 194 other folks,the company has a 100
+ year history an was #2 in its niche of printing,Gordon Gecko Wall Street economics put this place under not the union or the non union folks.
I plan on heading up yer way as well, maybe i can stop in and check out your shop peruse ths goodies so to speak an also shoot the bull...first things first im tyin shad flies will be Trout Speying the Delaware for shad in a few weeks, when the water reaches 50's the shad run also the quill gordons come off too gonna be a great spring to fish.
I love Maine i hope they don't get on this frack wagon, its gonna make Pa a Killzone for sure.all for the mighty dollar ..wheres the common sense?
I also love Pennsylvania too just this damn fracking has left me with a bad tatse in mouth. and i have ahorse in this race 200 acres in Clearfield county two cabins.I love the PA Wilds.
Tight Wraps & Tight Lines
Rick Wallace
flipnfly
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i remember seeing one of those when i was a kid it was up around emporium at a rest stop in a wee little stream behind it i remember it because i have never seena red fish with a green head before then it was winter time and my dad was broke down at hunting camp on keating summit and we had to go het him... .
The LL's in the Sink can be caught early while they stack up at the bottom of the creek mouths chasing Smelt. They can also be caught around the shore lines just after ice out as well. As far as the upper Neversink river goes it is all private except the first few100 yds from the Res. upstream. I expect to hear about a few being caught below the Res. since all the water we've had up here the past few shurely washed a few down.
PS They stock a few 1000 every year. it's not ##'s that are the problem. They are just hard to get at.
PS They stock a few 1000 every year. it's not ##'s that are the problem. They are just hard to get at.
limestoner
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Don't know if they were coho's but I was fishing up near the dam a couple of years ago, and in 70' a lot of big fish started to show up on the fish finder, what fish are in 70'?. When they put the coho's in there around 1997, I caught 8 or so at the dam, they were all schooled up, using a hopkins spoon. Don't know how long they live but they spawn at 2-4 years old, now the question is, are they spawning in the lake? or must they return from the sea to spawn. Shure would like to know more about this.
geebee
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i know this is an old thread but i thought i'd add my .02 based on my experience in NH and MA...
In both case landlocks run twice a year - in the fall to spawn, but more importantly, right after ice out. on the rivers the MerryMeeting and others up on winnipesaukee and a river in MA the LL's will follow the smelt up into the streams and then drop back at the end of the run.
as soon as the streams are ice free, if theres a smelt population in the lake you should fish.
i have fished the MerryMeeting in early March with 35 degrees water temp and caught fish - and seen dozens of anglers catch hundreds of fish.
imho if you're not fishing ice-out you're missing a trick here.
In both case landlocks run twice a year - in the fall to spawn, but more importantly, right after ice out. on the rivers the MerryMeeting and others up on winnipesaukee and a river in MA the LL's will follow the smelt up into the streams and then drop back at the end of the run.
as soon as the streams are ice free, if theres a smelt population in the lake you should fish.
i have fished the MerryMeeting in early March with 35 degrees water temp and caught fish - and seen dozens of anglers catch hundreds of fish.
imho if you're not fishing ice-out you're missing a trick here.
blueheron
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I have caught landlocked salmon in Lake Winnipesaukee but just haven't been up there for ice out to get them on the flyrod in the tribs. However, the NH Fish Comm. just called it quits to the Atlantic Salmon stocking program and proceeded to dump an ungodly amount of brood stock in the Pemigawasset River this fall, we had a great trip with the highlight being taking large salmon on a #16 caddis skated across the river, just a blast.
geebee
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The best place is the Landing in Alton - fish the piers. Watch the stripersonline NH forum for posts in March by The HairyBeast - great guy, he lives to share his river - its c&r anyway.
Weighted marabou leeches swung in olive n white do the trick. Upstream a mickey Finn swung will take them too.
Big bows will be in the mix too - as are lakers in MA.
Weighted marabou leeches swung in olive n white do the trick. Upstream a mickey Finn swung will take them too.
Big bows will be in the mix too - as are lakers in MA.
