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[Tigereye]

I get you. Us sportsmen need to hold commish's feet to the fire. Lots of waste, incompetenence, corruption, as with any govt entity. I dont know the answer. Is it dissolving PAFBC and starting over? Privatize stocking? Rewriting mission statement? More thorough audits with repurcussions for mismanagement? Implementation of an oversight committee? Probably dozens of other solutions singularly or in conjunction.

Lots of ways to skin the cat, but things arent gonna change for the better anytime soon as long as current system remains intact.

A bunch of states as mentioned have sound and robust agencies managing ther respective fisheries. Copying best mgmt practices from some of those may be a starting point for positive change.

 

[Fish Sticks]

I get you. Us sportsmen need to hold commish's feet to the fire. Lots of waste, incompetenence, corruption, as with any govt entity. I dont know the answer. Is it dissolving PAFBC and starting over? Privatize stocking? Rewriting mission statement? More thorough audits with repurcussions for mismanagement? Implementation of an oversight committee? Probably dozens of other solutions singularly or in conjunction.

Lots of ways to skin the cat, but things arent gonna change for the better anytime soon as long as current system remains intact.

A bunch of states as mentioned have sound and robust agencies managing ther respective fisheries. Copying best mgmt practices from some of those may be a starting point for positive change.

Absolutely, thats why i have always seen public awareness and demanding change as a nice simple message/call to action. Because just as you said, there are other states that might not be perfect but the bar is so low in PA that there are many examples they could follow.

 

[troutbert]

Its time for PFBC to get pushed, by legislators

If you can get some legislators to push for shifting stocking away from brook trout streams to other waters, that would be very good.

 

[Fish Sticks]

If you can get some legislators to push for shifting stocking away from brook trout streams to other waters, that would be very good.

That is my hope, maybe i am looking at this with hopeful bias but i feel like the time is right with the financial woes, penn state smeal college of business recs to cut fish and hatcheries for fiscal sustainability, and putting their stocking practices under a microscope.

still not easy by any means but I feel the farther we get left behind by other states as far as %conservation > %hatchery social program, its in our favor and not theirs.

 

[troutbert]

That is my hope, maybe i am looking at this with hopeful bias but i feel like the time is right with the financial woes, penn state smeal college of business recs to cut fish and hatcheries for fiscal sustainability, and putting their stocking practices under a microscope.

still not easy by any means but I feel the farther we get left behind by other states as far as %conservation > %hatchery social program, its in our favor and not theirs.

I think you could get some support for shifting stocking away from native brook trout streams. That does not actually take anything away from fishermen. It simply shifts the stockies from native brook trout streams to other waters, so the number of hatchery trout available to fish for remains the same.

I don't think you will get much support for closing hatcheries and reducing the number of hatchery trout raised.

Suppose they closed a hatchery, and reduced trout production by 30%. The PFBC and the coop hatcheries would still be stocking native brook trout streams. It wouldn't solve that problem.

 

[silverfox]

I think you could get some support for shifting stocking away from native brook trout streams. That does not actually take anything away from fishermen. It simply shifts the stockies from native brook trout streams to other waters, so the number of hatchery trout available to fish for remains the same.

I don't think you will get much support for closing hatcheries and reducing the number of hatchery trout raised.

Suppose they closed a hatchery, and reduced trout production by 30%. The PFBC and the coop hatcheries would still be stocking native brook trout streams. It wouldn't solve that problem.

Brook trout are the obvious key in this. The wildlife action plan, TU's brook trout portfolio, The Chesapeake Bay initiatives, EBTJV, researchers, and other states all identify brook trout as in need of extra conservation and, in some cases, even define nonnative trout as a significant cause for their decline. Stocking = adding nonnative trout rather than reducing them.

The brook trout zeal isn't necessarily simply because some people are obsessed with the species as much as they're an obvious key to change.

 

[Roofin' Trouter]

I think you could get some support for shifting stocking away from native brook trout streams. That does not actually take anything away from fishermen. It simply shifts the stockies from native brook trout streams to other waters, so the number of hatchery trout available to fish for remains the same.

I don't think you will get much support for closing hatcheries and reducing the number of hatchery trout raised.

Suppose they closed a hatchery, and reduced trout production by 30%. The PFBC and the coop hatcheries would still be stocking native brook trout streams. It wouldn't solve that problem.

What percent of the streams ,where native brook trout are stocked over, flow through State Forests and Parks? In some parts of the Commonwealth its probably a lot of them. DCNR doesn't manage those waterways but could condone it publicly.
I would expect some of the cricks getting removed from stocking to create a fuss . Maybe it would be absorbed better with two agencies to scapegoat?

 

[silverfox]

What percent of the streams ,where native brook trout are stocked over, flow through State Forests and Parks? In some parts of the Commonwealth its probably a lot of them. DCNR doesn't manage those waterways but could condone it publicly.
I would expect some of the cricks getting removed from stocking to create a fuss . Maybe it would be absorbed better with two agencies to scapegoat?

Even better are where streams flow through designated natural and wild areas and are stocked. Those areas are meant to preserved, and as the names imply, wild and natural. There is nothing wild or natural about stocked fish.

 

[Roofin' Trouter]

Even better are where streams flow through designated natural and wild areas and are stocked. Those areas are meant to preserved, and as the names imply, wild and natural. There is nothing wild or natural about stocked fish.

Yep... Nothing screams wild area like a few big orange trout swimming under a waterfall.

 

[silverfox]

One caution about that, though, it's not very many streams. Though the list below doesn't include any Co-op stocking or private stocking since those lists aren't in GIS/readily available or available at all.

Wykoff Run

Mix Run

Cooks Run

Antietam Creek

Tub Mill Run

Sinking Creek

Standing Stone Creek

Gifford Run

Big Sandy Creek

Pine Creek

Baker Run

North Branch Buffalo Creek

Carbaugh Run

Swift Run

Clear Shade Creek

Driftwood Branch Sinnemahoning Creek

Big Poe Creek

Kettle Creek

 

[Fish Sticks]

I think you could get some support for shifting stocking away from native brook trout streams. That does not actually take anything away from fishermen. It simply shifts the stockies from native brook trout streams to other waters, so the number of hatchery trout available to fish for remains the same.

I don't think you will get much support for closing hatcheries and reducing the number of hatchery trout raised.

Suppose they closed a hatchery, and reduced trout production by 30%. The PFBC and the coop hatcheries would still be stocking native brook trout streams. It wouldn't solve that problem.

I think you could combine those two things where closed hatcheries or less fish could be held back from brook trout streams. I don’t think they have the money to just move the fish, even with raiding growing greener 2 for hatchery repairs their expenses still grow faster than revenue.

 

[silverfox]

Wild areas:

When artificial regeneration is considered in a wild area, the maintenance of endemic genotypes of native species should be encouraged through the use of local seed sources. Wild areas should be considered gene pools where endemic species and genotypes can interact and evolve with changing environmental stresses. The resulting species types can provide a reservoir of valuable genotypes for future incorporation into breeding programs. The introduction of exotic species and genotypes, which might change the character of the area, is discouraged. See genetic diversity guidelines.

Nothing says "preserving genetic diversity and endemic genotypes," like dumping a bunch of nonnative trout in the system.

The frustrating thing is, that paragraph would be a good guideline for how to manage the entire state. Instead, not only do we not do anything remotely close to it, we don't even do it where its actually called for.