Does anyone want a real wild trout stamp?

Yes, agree with all this. People call them disgusting finless trash, etc. But it's not like they really had a choice. Disturbing and sadistic are good words to describe it.
Agree they had no choice, and those adjectives might be better. I’ll throw in tragic as well from the waste of resources perspective and the fact that introducing non native inbred fish has been ironically been branded as conservation by some.

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I get where you guys are coming to and I don’t support non native stockings. But as far as the native fish will thrive and are waterways will have a bunch of fish. There wouldn’t with over fishing and pollution. Which is another topic but just saying there still would be sturgeon in our some of our waters.

At least with stocking it gives us a decent fishery and fish to fish for. Just my two cents.

I’m sure our native trout population would be more healthier. Without having to compete.
 
No other group of sportsmen or outdoorsmen have such support and encouragement for nonnative species propagation, distribution, and protection.

You don't see North American Whitetail or the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation advocating to import Fallow Deer or Stag from Germany. Ducks Unlimited isn't advocating for the propagation and release of domesticated Mandarin Ducks across the USA.
 
I get where you guys are coming to and I don’t support non native stockings. But as far as the native fish will thrive and are waterways will have a bunch of fish. There wouldn’t with over fishing and pollution. Which is another topic but just saying there still would be sturgeon in our some of our waters.

At least with stocking it gives us a decent fishery and fish to fish for. Just my two cents.

I’m sure our native trout population would be more healthier. Without having to compete.
Your right that there is an undeniable influence of pollution but non-natives have been greatly underestimated. What could exist in a perfect impossible scenario is so beyond our comprehension because we have never seen it. Its a spectrum and even the middle ground on that spectrum could blow our minds based on what we have currently. pulse dosed floods of stocked nonnative fish are a large part of the instability keeping us from better functioning ecosystems. As far as fishing goes the recognition of unstocked opportunities in the angling community is on the rise. I fish a combined redbreast sunfish, channel catfish, fallfish with anglers catching all above mentioned species on wets and wooly buggers. Can be alot of fun. The whole need for stocked trout is more socially learned behavior than true lack of opportunity. People who breakout find out they were missing some of the best angling in the state.
 
As for stamps and being forced to buy a trout stamp when I’m fishing for other fish. I don’t agree with. As for wild fish vs stocking a little different when just talking about trout since the fish comm. stocks more than just trout. IMO there wouldn’t be many wild fish out there if they weren’t stocked at one point.

At least there are some places you only need a license and not a trout stamp.
There are LOTS of places where you only need a license and not a trout stamp. It isn't WHAT you're fishing for that matters but WHERE and, honestly, that makes sense.
 
Your right that there is an undeniable influence of pollution but non-natives have been greatly underestimated. What could exist in a perfect impossible scenario is so beyond our comprehension because we have never seen it. Its a spectrum and even the middle ground on that spectrum could blow our minds based on what we have currently. pulse dosed floods of stocked nonnative fish are a large part of the instability keeping us from better functioning ecosystems. As far as fishing goes the recognition of unstocked opportunities in the angling community is on the rise. I fish a combined redbreast sunfish, channel catfish, fallfish with anglers catching all above mentioned species on wets and wooly buggers. Can be alot of fun. The whole need for stocked trout is more socially learned behavior than true lack of opportunity. People who breakout find out they were missing some of the best angling in the state.
Unless you're fishing in the Ohio River watershed you need to remove the channel catfish from your list of celebrated native fish that you're catching. Channel cats aren't native to the Susky watershed or the other eastern rivers.
 
Unless you're fishing in the Ohio River watershed you need to remove the channel catfish from your list of celebrated native fish that you're catching. Channel cats aren't native to the Susky watershed or the other eastern rivers.
Correct but point being there are tons of opportunities that don’t come from a stocking truck and some of the best early summer smallmouth streams are stocked trout streams. Either way I don’t see why giving anglers the option to decide if they personally want to fund and utilize stocked invasive trout species would offend or anger anyone.
 
There are LOTS of places where you only need a license and not a trout stamp. It isn't WHAT you're fishing for that matters but WHERE and, honestly, that makes sense.
I can post a bunch that won’t make sense to this but the biggest is why do they stock little fish (trout) in when all they are is food for Muskie that they stock. And that’s your where cause the place I am forced to buy the stamp I fish for Muskie and trout is a great bait for them. Doesn’t make sense to me.
 
No other group of sportsmen or outdoorsmen have such support and encouragement for nonnative species propagation, distribution, and protection.

You don't see North American Whitetail or the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation advocating to import Fallow Deer or Stag from Germany. Ducks Unlimited isn't advocating for the propagation and release of domesticated Mandarin Ducks across the USA.
On the contrary. Pheasants are non-native, but I don't hear any one demanding their removal. Or Hungarian partridge, either.

As the National Park Service's website says "It is often thought that the terms 'invasive' and 'non-native' can be used interchangeably, but this is not always true."
 
Correct but point being there are tons of opportunities that don’t come from a stocking truck and some of the best early summer smallmouth streams are stocked trout streams. Either way I don’t see why giving anglers the option to decide if they personally want to fund and utilize stocked invasive trout species would offend or anger anyone.
Everyone knows there are plenty of fishing opportunities that don't involve the put-and-take artificial trout fishery. No one denied that. I am not offended by the option to decide if you personally want to fund the stockies or not. Actually, you already mostly have that option and that is whether you buy a trout stamp or not. If you buy one, then you are funding it, if you don't buy one, then you largely are not funding it. No one cares if you buy one, just don't trout fish otherwise or fish in bodies of water stocked with trout. The reason why you are not able to fish in places with stocked trout (or wild trout) if you don't have one is because enforcement would be too difficult. Any angler could say "no, I am not fishing for trout. I am targeting XXXXX and these stupid trout keep biting." As long as an angler isn't caught with fish you couldn't enforce it. So, anywhere trout are stocked (or wild), you shouldn't be able to fish. Also, if you feel 100% of the trout stamp money is spent on stocking, then how did the PFBC implement it's wild trout surveys in the 70's, way before I could donate money with a voluntary trout permit.

A significant portion of the funding from the PFBC stems from federal money. It is not all license sales. Don't forget, the money raised also fixes dams, raises hatchery WW fish to restore populations, (all nonnative basically), do biologist reports, etc. Plus, don't forget the PFBC massive payroll. Yes, dams and stocking of WW fish is also controversial. Either way, what you do to make someone happy won't make everyone happy. Honestly, it is what it is and I think the PFBC does a pretty good job.

As far as the whitetail/duck hunting thing I will say this......I am an avid waterfowl hunter. Yeah, Delta Waterfowl does quite a lot to ensure that the Eastern Mallard and the resident goose populations continue to do well. Just a tid-bit of information, those two populations didn't exist 100 years ago. They exist because of people. We did not have breeding mallards in Pennsylvania historically, and the lion's share of the birds were midwest and western flyway birds. Our eastern mallards that breed here, from Canada down through PA and a little further south, are descendants of farmed mallards from Europe. So, yeah, human beings bolstered the Eastern Mallard population by releasing farmed, domesticated strains of mallards. Our birds are genetically different from the mallards of the pacific and Mississippi fly ways. The Eastern mallard is seriously declining and has been for the past 20 years and a lot of money is being spent to help correct the problem, both by DU and Delta Waterfowl. So, we as a group of waterfowl hunters are trying to save birds that historically weren't here, weren't native, etc. I don't see how that is any different than, let's say, Penns Creek suddenly had massive die off's. Since those browns aren't native we should forget about em, right?

Trout stocking and the system isn't perfect, but it is a heritage and a tradition. Things are slowly changing, but slowly, and that is both good and bad. It takes people time to change and not feel so threatened as it happens.
 
I can post a bunch that won’t make sense to this but the biggest is why do they stock little fish (trout) in when all they are is food for Muskie that they stock. And that’s your where cause the place I am forced to buy the stamp I fish for Muskie and trout is a great bait for them. Doesn’t make sense to me.
Since my other post is long and rambling, they stock fish there because:

A) People enjoy fishing for trout, and maybe that body of water is in an ideal location to support nearby population centers and provide a couple of months of fishing for trout.
B) The reason you need a trout stamp is for enforcement reasons. You cannot tell what a person is fishing for. Maybe they could provide a cut off date. Ex: No Trout stamp needed after July 1 in this body of water.
C) If musky love eating trout (which they do) and you love fishing for musky, then why wouldn't you want the PFBC to put a bunch of easy food for the musky to gorge on and hopefully grow bigger. The place that you are targeting the musky they probably aren't native either, so what's the difference?
D) Stocked trout definitely help to sell licenses.
 
On the contrary. Pheasants are non-native, but I don't hear any one demanding their removal. Or Hungarian partridge, either.

As the National Park Service's website says "It is often thought that the terms 'invasive' and 'non-native' can be used interchangeably, but this is not always true."
I, for one, have submitted comments to PGC suggesting we put as much, or more effort (and money) into our native quail than we waste on nonnative pheasants. I believe I've mentioned this in forums as well. Just not here on a fly fishing site. I personally think the entire pheasant program is a waste and wrongheaded.

My point here is that the national non-profit organizations concerned with the conservation of our terrestrial wildlife aren't out there advocating for the introduction of nonnative species. I don't think DU promotes the stocking of pheasants, do they?
 
Everyone knows there are plenty of fishing opportunities that don't involve the put-and-take artificial trout fishery. No one denied that. I am not offended by the option to decide if you personally want to fund the stockies or not. Actually, you already mostly have that option and that is whether you buy a trout stamp or not. If you buy one, then you are funding it, if you don't buy one, then you largely are not funding it. No one cares if you buy one, just don't trout fish otherwise or fish in bodies of water stocked with trout. The reason why you are not able to fish in places with stocked trout (or wild trout) if you don't have one is because enforcement would be too difficult. Any angler could say "no, I am not fishing for trout. I am targeting XXXXX and these stupid trout keep biting." As long as an angler isn't caught with fish you couldn't enforce it. So, anywhere trout are stocked (or wild), you shouldn't be able to fish. Also, if you feel 100% of the trout stamp money is spent on stocking, then how did the PFBC implement it's wild trout surveys in the 70's, way before I could donate money with a voluntary trout permit.

A significant portion of the funding from the PFBC stems from federal money. It is not all license sales. Don't forget, the money raised also fixes dams, raises hatchery WW fish to restore populations, (all nonnative basically), do biologist reports, etc. Plus, don't forget the PFBC massive payroll. Yes, dams and stocking of WW fish is also controversial. Either way, what you do to make someone happy won't make everyone happy. Honestly, it is what it is and I think the PFBC does a pretty good job.
What if you like fishing for brook trout? That's the issue fish sticks was getting at. Stocking trout is deleterious to wild brook trout. Period. So if you're concerned with brook trout conservation and you're forced to buy a stamp that basically further damages brook trout, that's kind of a hard pill to swallow.
 
Why would they? They're concerned with ducks. They probably don't promote stopping the Pebble Mine, either, or dam removal.
and grouse and geese... My point, and I stand by it, is that anglers are more supportive of nonnative species than any other group. Even conflating "conservation" with expanding fishing opportunities.
 
and grouse and geese... My point, and I stand by it, is that anglers are more supportive of nonnative species than any other group. Even conflating "conservation" with expanding fishing opportunities.
Try to take pheasants away from North Dakota, and see how far you get with that.

I'm all in favor of wild trout and limiting stocking over wild populations. I'd even support a real wild trout stamp.

I am, however, sick of seeing brown trout referred to as an "invasive species" in this thread. They're non-native, but fill an ecological niche in places that will no longer support brook trout.
 
Try to take pheasants away from North Dakota, and see how far you get with that.

I'm all in favor of wild trout and limiting stocking over wild populations. I'd even support a real wild trout stamp.

I am, however, sick of seeing brown trout referred to as an "invasive species" in this thread. They're non-native, but fill an ecological niche in places that will no longer support brook trout.
They displace native fish. They're the literal definition of an invasive species.
 
They displace native fish. They're the literal definition of an invasive species.
So do cattle, which are the usual example on a non-invasive species introduced species.

We could get rid of humans while we're at it.
 
So do cattle, which are the usual example on a non-invasive species introduced species.

We could get rid of humans while we're at it.
We didn't unleash cattle into the wild to displace native cattle.

We weren't introduced, we migrated.
 
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