Register now on PaFlyFish.com! Login
HOME FORUM BLOG PHOTOS LINKS


Sponsors

Browsing this Thread:   1 Anonymous Users



(1) 2 3 4 5 »


Tulpehocken Creek, Berks County?, 7/3/2012

Joined:
2009/5/26 8:36
From York & Starlight, PA
Posts: 543
Offline
Went to the Tully yesterday morning for the Trico spinners. Arrived at 5:15 a.m. at Rebers Bridge. Initially there were very few rising fish but by 6:00 a.m. there were good numbers of fish rising. Cuaght five rainbows 9" - 11" quite easily on #22 Trico parachute.

But once the spinners started to really come down the creek those trout got extremely tough, for me, to catch. Used 7X fluro all day. About 10:00 there was a huge caddis emergence and I went to a #20 tan cdc pattern. It was actually easy to get fish and many took on the first float. There were a couple of pods of fish working from just above the bridge to about 100 yards upstream.

I wet waded and the water was quite warm. I did not have a thermometer and couldn't take the temperature. I did see severe distress in all of the large brown trout. Actually I never thought the creek even had large browns. I saw four 16" - 18" browns literally gasping for air. Two of them continually came to the surface to gulp air. One virtually expired in front of me. It came to the surface and then rolled over. I followed it down stream and when it sank I lifted it out of the water to see if I could revive it.

It's gills were just a pinkish color, not the vivid red you normally see in a healthy fish. I tried, in vain, to revive it but it died within a few minutes. A fellow I saw at the bridge told me he had seen one earlier, the same size, come tumbling down in front of him.

The other two large browns were sitting on the bottom within six feet of me and there mouths were constantly opening and closing so I'm assuming that was to try to get oxygen through their gills.

The rainbows seemed unaffected by the warm water. I quit at 11:30 when the caddis stopped emerging. I did catch two browns, that had the appearance of being either wild, or holdovers, that were about 12" that took the fly eagerly and fought well.

The USGS site for the Reading gage does not provide temperature data but the Bernville gage, which I think is above Blue Marsh Lake, is reading 23.7 C. or about 74.7 F.

Posted on: 2012/7/4 15:49

Edited by JackM on 2012/7/6 6:58:11
_________________
Fly fisher for fifty years.


Re: Tulpehocken Creek, Berks County?

Joined:
2010/5/29 8:13
Posts: 84
Offline
I stayed away today for just that reason - the flows look light , and I was thinking the fish would be stressed. Not good. Last thing they need is to be hooked and played in that condition. Maybe the Corps could increase the flow just a bit. I never understand the management of Blue Marsh - along 183 most of the time it is mudflats.

Posted on: 2012/7/4 16:20


Re: Tulpehocken Creek, Berks County?

Joined:
2009/4/6 14:26
From Limerick, Pa
Posts: 534
Offline
I have not fished the last couple of weeks in SE PA due to the heat wave and water temps. My fear is that even if the water reads mid to high 60's early morning, catching fish may lead to their premature demise as the water temps quickly rise throughout the day, every day. And tricos are hard for me to stay away from but it is in my long term best interest to do so until the weather breaks and we get some rain. Just my opinion.

Posted on: 2012/7/4 23:13
_________________
I won't slave for beggars pay, likewise gold and jewels
But I would slave to learn the way to sink your ship of fools


Re: Tulpehocken Creek, Berks County?
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
Posts: 8618
Online
Quote:

wbranch wrote:
Went to the Tully yesterday morning for the Trico spinners. Arrived at 5:15 a.m. at Rebers Bridge. Initially there were very few rising fish but by 6:00 a.m. there were good numbers of fish rising. Cuaght five rainbows 9" - 11" quite easily on #22 Trico parachute.

But once the spinners started to really come down the creek those trout got extremely tough, for me, to catch. Used 7X fluro all day. About 10:00 there was a huge caddis emergence and I went to a #20 tan cdc pattern. It was actually easy to get fish and many took on the first float. There were a couple of pods of fish working from just above the bridge to about 100 yards upstream.

I wet waded and the water was quite warm. I did not have a thermometer and couldn't take the temperature. I did see severe distress in all of the large brown trout. Actually I never thought the creek even had large browns. I saw four 16" - 18" browns literally gasping for air. Two of them continually came to the surface to gulp air. One virtually expired in front of me. It came to the surface and then rolled over. I followed it down stream and when it sank I lifted it out of the water to see if I could revive it.

It's gills were just a pinkish color, not the vivid red you normally see in a healthy fish. I tried, in vain, to revive it but it died within a few minutes. A fellow I saw at the bridge told me he had seen one earlier, the same size, come tumbling down in front of him.

The other two large browns were sitting on the bottom within six feet of me and there mouths were constantly opening and closing so I'm assuming that was to try to get oxygen through their gills.

The rainbows seemed unaffected by the warm water. I quit at 11:30 when the caddis stopped emerging. I did catch two browns, that had the appearance of being either wild, or holdovers, that were about 12" that took the fly eagerly and fought well.

The USGS site for the Reading gage does not provide temperature data but the Bernville gage, which I think is above Blue Marsh Lake, is reading 23.7 C. or about 74.7 F.



WB,

There is a Tully gauge with temps. I believe it is located at the Waterworks right by the steps - see below.

The peak temp appears to be around 69*. It often makes me wonder what the true temperature tolerance is for trout. I guess it varies by species and strain, but anything approaching 70* is NG for sure.

A few years ago, while fishing the trike hatch, actually in the same place and I witnessed the same thing; large brown trout in distress. After that, I made a turnaround about stocking fingerlings and believing the Tully was a tailwater and a 12month a year fishery. It is not, IMO.

Keep an eye on the temp gauge in a few weeks when the cold water pool is completely depleted. This happens most years around mid July.

I have a problem with stocking these creatures and allowing them to suffer so we can play with them.

They are already parboiled...keep them and fry them up.

Here is a link to the Tully discussion from last year.


Attach file:



jpg  Tully Temp.JPG (100.19 KB)
53_4ff56ce3e91d9.jpg 576X384 px

Posted on: 2012/7/5 6:47

Edited by afishinado on 2012/7/5 7:25:55
Edited by afishinado on 2012/7/5 7:27:55
Edited by afishinado on 2012/7/5 7:28:54


Re: Tulpehocken Creek, Berks County?

Joined:
2011/4/12 17:23
From Lancaster Co.
Posts: 1086
Offline
To call the Tully a year 'round tailwater fishery is BS. Blue Marsh simply doesn't have the depth and volume of cold water to allow for a summer long release at temperatures that are conducive to trout. Agree with everything you said afish.

Posted on: 2012/7/5 8:45
_________________
"You might be a big fish, in a little pond. Doesn't mean you've won, cause a long may come, a bigger one."


Re: Tulpehocken Creek, Berks County?

Joined:
2009/5/26 8:36
From York & Starlight, PA
Posts: 543
Offline
afishinado wrote;

" I made a turnaround about stocking fingerlings and believing the Tully was a tailwater and a 12month a year fishery. It is not, IMO.

Keep an eye on the temp gauge in a few weeks when the cold water pool is completely depleted. This happens most years around mid July.

I have a problem with stocking these creatures and allowing them to suffer so we can play with them.

They are already parboiled...keep them and fry them up."

I too agree with the premise that the Tully is not a year round cool tailwater. As others mention the lake is just not deep enough to provide sustained cold water releases.

I thought about keeping the fish rather than let it just go to waste but I had no cooler with me and it is an hour long ride back to York.

It is a shame that it has such potential but as afish mentioned even though the trout are hatchery fish it still is sad that they must suffer in water unsuitable for their welfare. Maybe less fish should be stocked and never stock anything over 12".

Posted on: 2012/7/5 8:57
_________________
Fly fisher for fifty years.


Re: Tulpehocken Creek, Berks County?

Joined:
2010/5/29 8:13
Posts: 84
Offline
I felt the same about the 22+ inch cutbow I caught and released a few weeks back in the Palisades, and there were more of them in there. It is not an appropriate fish to put in there. The fish seemed stressed, and the water was 67 degrees. Not yet warm, but not all that cold for a trout either.

I do remember many a hot summer morning probably 15 years ago fishing better, cold flows over tricos and rising football shaped rainbows that I think started life as fingerlings - it was better fishing then. Maybe the climate was better.

Posted on: 2012/7/5 11:59


Re: Tulpehocken Creek, Berks County?
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/9 17:32
From Gettysburg
Posts: 8677
Offline
Quote:

NedZeppelin wrote:
I felt the same about the 22+ inch cutbow


Cutbow? How did they get in there? Private stocking?

Are you sure this wasn't just a typical rainbow with a faint red chin slash? These are common. They're not hybrids which a true "cutbow" is.

Posted on: 2012/7/5 12:14


Re: Tulpehocken Creek, Berks County?

Joined:
2007/6/20 11:26
Posts: 401
Offline
I dont think the PFBc does a good job, or reaaly any job, of managing the flows either, it could be managed better than it is but they dont seem interested

Posted on: 2012/7/5 12:19


Re: Tulpehocken Creek, Berks County?

Joined:
2011/4/12 17:23
From Lancaster Co.
Posts: 1086
Offline
Blue Marsh is a flood control project managed by the Army Corps of Engineers. First priority is flood protection of downstream areas in particular the City of Reading. Second to that I think is probably maintaining an adequate pool depth for summer boating on Blue Marsh lake. I don't think the PAF&BC is in a position to dictate flows and ultimately, the lake doesn't have the volume of cold water needed to keep water temps optimal for trout through the summer.

22" cutbow?

Posted on: 2012/7/5 13:13
_________________
"You might be a big fish, in a little pond. Doesn't mean you've won, cause a long may come, a bigger one."


Re: Tulpehocken Creek, Berks County?

Joined:
2009/5/26 8:36
From York & Starlight, PA
Posts: 543
Offline
Fishidiot wrote;

"They're not hybrids which a true "cutbow" is."

I agree with this comment. There has been so much interbreeding of cuttthroat with rainbows that I think often a hatchery is getting rainbows that are far from being genetically pure strain. Pure rainbows do not have that orange slash in the fold under their jaws. I have caught rainbows this season with that orange slash that were progeny of true rainbow/cutthroat cross breeding decades ago but to say every trout with that faint orange slash is a cutbow is just incorrect.

Posted on: 2012/7/5 20:16
_________________
Fly fisher for fifty years.


Re: Tulpehocken Creek, Berks County?
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/9 17:32
From Gettysburg
Posts: 8677
Offline
Quote:

wbranch wrote:
Fishidiot wrote;

"They're not hybrids which a true "cutbow" is."

I agree with this comment. There has been so much interbreeding of cuttthroat with rainbows that I think often a hatchery is getting rainbows that are far from being genetically pure strain. Pure rainbows do not have that orange slash in the fold under their jaws. I have caught rainbows this season with that orange slash that were progeny of true rainbow/cutthroat cross breeding decades ago but to say every trout with that faint orange slash is a cutbow is just incorrect.


This is quite likely true, especially in western hatcheries (I'd imagine). In the case of PA rainbows however, I doubt there's much cuttie DNA, if any at all. There are, in fact, pure populations of wild rainbows that have the throat slash naturally and not due to cuttie DNA. Some Redband rainbows, for example, tend to have the slash.

Whatever the case, when I see the red slash on rainbows here in PA, it's often on good quality fish. I used to see it all the time in holdover stockies in Spring Creek. Some of the wild 'bows in Falling Springs have the slash as well.

Posted on: 2012/7/5 22:02


Re: Tulpehocken Creek, Berks County?

Joined:
2006/11/10 8:32
Posts: 1584
Offline
This is a small example of exactly why there is a proposal that the first day of permissible harvest be shifted from June 15 to Memorial Day Weekend in DH Areas. Yet there are murmurings to me at times that this particular stream should be strictly C&R, suggesting that the mortality through the summer is not temperature related or in addition caused by avian predators aided by low summer flow, but largely caused by angler harvest. Why else would one propose C&R, since C&R only affects angler harvest and not water temps, predatory effects, or other forms of natural mortality?

The DH Area has a very limited carrying capacity for trout throughout the summer. It is primarily determined by the limited coldwater refuge space provided by the outfalls from Cacoosing Ck, Plum Ck, and perhaps the occasional small spring within the Tully's stream bed. There are annually (many) more trout in the stream going into the summer than the coldwater refugia could ever come close to supporting.

One other option to consider in the Tully in an effort to reduce the amount of temperature related mortality if an earlier harvest date would not be acceptable would be to reduce the stocking rate, perhaps substantially, resulting in less fish being present going into the summer. What would be your preference?

Posted on: 2012/7/5 22:20


Re: Tulpehocken Creek, Berks County?

Joined:
2009/5/26 8:36
From York & Starlight, PA
Posts: 543
Offline
Fishidiot wrote;

"Some Redband rainbows, for example, tend to have the slash."

I was unaware of that fact. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

Posted on: 2012/7/5 22:45
_________________
Fly fisher for fifty years.


Re: Tulpehocken Creek, Berks County?

Joined:
2009/5/26 8:36
From York & Starlight, PA
Posts: 543
Offline
Mike wrote;

"What would be your preference?"

Is it possible to change the rules entirely and make it Trophy Water with a limit of one trout per day 15" minimum and either stock less fish altogether or start to stock in February and stop by the beginning of May.

I was fishing, and catching, trout there in February so either fish were being stocked early (were they) or there was a heck of a great carry over from the 2011 season.

Posted on: 2012/7/5 22:55
_________________
Fly fisher for fifty years.



(1) 2 3 4 5 »



You can view topic.
You cannot start a new topic.
You cannot reply to posts.
You cannot edit your posts.
You cannot delete your posts.
You cannot add new polls.
You cannot vote in polls.
You cannot attach files to posts.
You cannot post without approval.

[Advanced Search]





Site Content
Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
Stay Connected

twitterfeed.com facebook instagram RSS Feed

Sponsors
Polls
What kind of streams do you primarily fish?
Approved Trout Waters (Stocked Fish)
Class A Wild Trout Streams
Special Regulation Areas
Wilderness Trout Streams
No Preference All Trout Streams
154 total votes!
The poll will close at 2014/4/30 15:00
4 Comments
USGS Water Levels





Copyright 2014 by PaFlyFish.com | Privacy Policy| Provided by Kile Media Group | Design by 7dana.com