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Re: Tulpehocken Creek, Berks County?, 7/3/2012

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I wish I would have taken a picture of the 22+" "cutbow" but it was actually another angler who told me he had caught a similar fish, and said some one had stocked "cutbows." (I'm thinking, who would have done that?) I first labeled it a mature rainbow with a particularly dramatic coloration so I would not make any claim as to its ancestry, but it sure looked a lot different from your standard hatchery rainbow.

The fish was so big when it came to the net I thought it wanted to have a conversation.

Other than the fun of catching it, though, it was clearly an inappropriate fish - it gave me that "fishing in a petting zoo" feeling - to be dropping into what is clearly a temperature challenged watershed.

I headed up to the mountains ths past weekend and caught brookies and got over it.

Posted on: 2012/7/8 10:32


Re: Tulpehocken Creek, Berks County?, 7/3/2012

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Quote:

NedZeppelin wrote:
I headed up to the mountains ths past weekend and caught brookies and got over it.


Works every time.

Posted on: 2012/7/10 7:59


Re: Tulpehocken Creek, Berks County?, 7/3/2012

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Mike, the OP posted this on July 4. And all in all, he did pretty well, at least as summertime fishing on larger streams goes. A good 2 weeks after the current DH date.

If the DH date were moved up to memorial day, would he have done as well? I don't know the degree to which it would harm the fishing, but it certainly wouldn't help.

You seem to be of the opinion that allowing fish to die due to water temps and predation should be avoided. That's the part I respectfully disagree with. The goal is to hold onto a decent fishery as long as possible into the summer.

A fish that gets caught 4 times and then dies due to warm water is MORE valuable than a fish that gets caught twice and harvested before water temps do it in.

Posted on: 2012/7/10 15:42


Re: Tulpehocken Creek, Berks County?, 7/3/2012

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wbranch, this was probably answered already. But fish are stocked in the fall too. So catching trout in February is in no way indicative that those fish made it through the previous summer.

Posted on: 2012/7/10 15:48


Re: Tulpehocken Creek, Berks County?, 7/3/2012

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Quote:
A fish that gets caught 4 times and then dies due to warm water is MORE valuable than a fish that gets caught twice and harvested before water temps do it in.

+1. Especially since many of us know a few patches in streams where cooler water is sustained and allow a few trout to survive through the summer.

Posted on: 2012/7/10 23:35


Re: Tulpehocken Creek, Berks County?, 7/3/2012

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Mike
In reference to your statement that “Population abundance at the end of the typical summer would be independent of the regs and dependent upon temperature and predation effects, ie no net gain in large trout”.

When the Tully was stocked with fingerlings the presence of holdover trout was obvious. Your electrofishing studies revealed the number of holderovers.

Section 5 – 1200 foot section – Fingerlings with NO Tackle Restrictions
5 studies between 1981 and 1984 (between 1980 and 1984 bait was allowed)
Number of Trout – 7 to 31 trout
Number of Trout greater than 12 inches (holdovers) 3 to 15

Section 5 – 1200 foot section – Fingerlings with DHALO regulations
5 studies between 1985 and 1993
Number of Trout – 134 to 195 trout
Number of Trout greater than 12 inches (holdovers) 20 to 58

The Tully has significant number of trout that holdover and provide an excellent sport fishery during the summer and early fall before the Fall stocking. On the Tully special regs have had a significant beneficial effect on the trout population.



Posted on: 2012/7/11 14:31


Re: Tulpehocken Creek, Berks County?, 7/3/2012

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When I said "regs" in the paragraph from which the sentence quoted above was taken, I was referring only to C&R regs and maximum size limits, those that I mentioned in the paragraph.

Posted on: 2012/7/11 22:39


Re: Tulpehocken Creek, Berks County?, 7/3/2012

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Wow, there is a ton of really bad information in this thread.
The Blue Marsh Dam operators did exactly what they are requested to do. When the stream temperatures EXCEED 70 degrees PEAK temps for a number of days (theoretically 3 days) they will open the bottom release which releases the cool (not really cold) water. This clearly happened on July 3rd when we see temps of prior days ranging from 68 to 70 degrees. From that point forward you see a VERY consistent range of 65 low to 69 high.

So it is being stated that brown trout over 12" die when exposed to temps of 65 - 69? I am no biologist but I call BS on that one. I would suggest that maybe someone needs to look into what is happening to cause fish to go belly up with that frequency at an average temp of 67 degrees. Certainly this stream has been cooler on average during the last 8 days than the LL which seems to hold fish.

Response?


Attach file:



jpg  Tully Chart.jpg (96.07 KB)
2943_4ffe4ac18f751.jpg 641X470 px

Posted on: 2012/7/11 23:55


Re: Tulpehocken Creek, Berks County?, 7/3/2012
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JD,

Agree with all of the above.

The dam control is the best it can be under the current conditions (limited cold water pool).

Also, Westbranch is a 5 star guy, and I believe his observations about the brown trout struggling to stay alive. As I posted, I saw the exact same thing not long ago in similar water temp conditions, in the same stream section.

Long and short, the stream cannot sustain many stocked trout through the summer. The release of cool water will end any week now, and the stream temps will rise well into the 70's through late July and August, depending on the weather.




Posted on: 2012/7/12 8:01


Re: Tulpehocken Creek, Berks County?, 7/3/2012

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Yes, the Tully temps are marginal. Yes, the flows at times are not ideal. Yes, it is a low gradient stream that does not look like a typical PA mountain trout stream. Yes, some sections lack optimal cover. But for Southeastern Pennsylvania the Tulpehocken is a large stream that has significant number of holdovers and provides a good year round trout sport fishery. I do agree that when the temps get marginal one should not fish. When the temps drop you will find significant numbers of trout are still there. The PFBC’s electrofishing studies reveal substantial numbers of holdover trout.

When the Tully was stocked with fingerlings the presence of holdover trout was obvious. Your electrofishing studies revealed the number of holderovers.

Section 5 – 1200 foot section – Fingerlings with NO Tackle Restrictions
5 studies between 1981 and 1984 (between 1980 and 1984 bait was allowed)
Number of Trout – 7 to 31 trout
Number of Trout greater than 12 inches (holdovers) 3 to 15

Section 5 – 1200 foot section – Fingerlings with DHALO regulations
5 studies between 1985 and 1993
Number of Trout – 134 to 195 trout
Number of Trout greater than 12 inches (holdovers) 20 to 58

20 to 58 holdovers in a 1200 foot section of stream – what more do you want.

When it is hot and dry most trout fisheries get stressed especially in Southeastern Pennsylvania.


Posted on: 2012/7/12 14:04


Re: Tulpehocken Creek, Berks County?, 7/3/2012

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I love fishing the Tully this time of year....for carp!

Posted on: 2012/7/12 14:20


Re: Tulpehocken Creek, Berks County?, 7/3/2012

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jdaddy - A possibility: nearly chronic exposure to water temperatures from 67.5 deg F to 71 deg F in the Tully from mid-June through early July with no night time relief may have been the culprit for some of the larger browns. Perhaps a little surprising at those temps, but a possibility to consider given the substantial number of days of exposure and the more vulnerable segment (larger fish) of the population that was involved according to the original post.

A slight correction in your statistics: The Corps begins bottom releases when the water temp hits 68 deg F for three mornings in a row at 8 AM. Sixty-eight degrees is the trigger value, not seventy.

Posted on: 2012/7/12 17:16


Re: Tulpehocken Creek, Berks County?, 7/3/2012
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Quote:

FCP wrote:
Yes, the Tully temps are marginal. Yes, the flows at times are not ideal. Yes, it is a low gradient stream that does not look like a typical PA mountain trout stream. Yes, some sections lack optimal cover. But for Southeastern Pennsylvania the Tulpehocken is a large stream that has significant number of holdovers and provides a good year round trout sport fishery. I do agree that when the temps get marginal one should not fish. When the temps drop you will find significant numbers of trout are still there. The PFBC’s electrofishing studies reveal substantial numbers of holdover trout.

When the Tully was stocked with fingerlings the presence of holdover trout was obvious. Your electrofishing studies revealed the number of holderovers.

Section 5 – 1200 foot section – Fingerlings with NO Tackle Restrictions
5 studies between 1981 and 1984 (between 1980 and 1984 bait was allowed)
Number of Trout – 7 to 31 trout
Number of Trout greater than 12 inches (holdovers) 3 to 15

Section 5 – 1200 foot section – Fingerlings with DHALO regulations
5 studies between 1985 and 1993
Number of Trout – 134 to 195 trout
Number of Trout greater than 12 inches (holdovers) 20 to 58

20 to 58 holdovers in a 1200 foot section of stream – what more do you want.

When it is hot and dry most trout fisheries get stressed especially in Southeastern Pennsylvania.



FCP,

Great info. I have fished the Tully for a long time and was happy with the fingerling stocking program, but these surveys are from 20 -30 years ago.

Perhaps Mike can give us a more up-to-date assessment of the fingerling survival rate. I'm not sure if the water quality, temp, and/or habitat has degraded, but the Tully fishing / fingerling survival rate had declined in recent years making it more suitable for a put-and take fishery, stocking adult trout in the spring and fall.

Posted on: 2012/7/13 7:03


Re: Tulpehocken Creek, Berks County?, 7/3/2012
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Quote:

afishinado wrote:
I have fished the Tully for a long time and was happy with the fingerling stocking program, but these surveys are from 20 -30 years ago.

Perhaps Mike can give us a more up-to-date assessment of the fingerling survival rate. I'm not sure if the water quality, temp, and/or habitat has degraded, but the Tully fishing / fingerling survival rate had declined in recent years making it more suitable for a put-and take fishery, stocking adult trout in the spring and fall.


Yep. The agency considered the fingerling program as an unqualified success in the 80s. The studies at the time also revealed noticeably better survival by rainbow fingerlings in the Tully than browns. Over the years, however, things changed. I'm not sure why. The adoption of an adult trout program was revealed by surveys to be welcome by anglers.
Look at the reports and discussion about the Tully here on Paff earlier this year. There were a lot of happy fishermen.
My personal opinion (I'm not a Tully regular) is that fingerlings ought to be stocked on a limited basis in the fall. Nevertheless, based on the conditions seen in recent years, I seriously doubt that that section can ever be more than a predominately adult stocked trout section.

Posted on: 2012/7/13 7:59


Re: Tulpehocken Creek, Berks County?, 7/3/2012

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I'm fairly certain that the upstream sinkholes, habitat loss, farms and everything else under the sun above the lake is causing the lower ends decline.

The upper stream could be a fantastic fishery given some love.

Posted on: 2012/7/13 8:50
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