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Re: Spruce Creek, Huntingdon County 11/12/2012

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2011/8/21 15:39
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its worthless to talk about the possibility of steelhead running up anywhere mentioned when it will NEVER happen!!!!!

I don't know when the bows spawn on Spruce, I have seen reds in the spring and also in the fall. The bows I have seen in the fall have never been on reds. (just the ones that I have seen. I always figured they were snacking on eggs from the browns.

The george harvey section always refills itself with bows. They move through that short stretch pretty regularly. I would agree with the idea that they spread out during the cold months because of lack of feeding. I am friends with a family that lives a little above the harvey stretch and they feed them in the summer. Its nothing to see 20 or so big bows chilling all day long waiting for food. This happens all along spruce creek.

Posted on: 2012/12/2 23:58


Re: Spruce Creek, Huntingdon County 11/12/2012

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I saw no spawning activity by any fish this weekend. Was able to catch a few small fish. Bows and browns but could not getting anything bigger then 10 - 11 in. Did see a number of the big bows being discussed but nothing that appeared to be spawning or on redds. Just laying in the big holes.
Bill A

Posted on: 2012/12/5 14:29


Re: Spruce Creek, Huntingdon County 11/12/2012

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Don't mean to hijack the thread here - but here's a pic of a small Spruce Creek Rainbow that I caught in the Harvey section. I never thought that there might be wild bows in there. What do you think? Wild or stocker?

Attach file:



jpg  spruce rainbow.jpg (88.68 KB)
715_50eb72308e488.jpg 562X417 px

Posted on: 2013/1/7 20:14
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Re: Spruce Creek, Huntingdon County 11/12/2012

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Wild

Posted on: 2013/1/7 22:41
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Re: Spruce Creek, Huntingdon County 11/12/2012
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There a shi7ton of adult rainbows (read breeder stock) stocked in Spruce Creek every year. It isn't surprising that there is propagation of these breeders each and every year. This does not substantiate a self sustaining wild fishery. It could develop but typically these prodigy need to grow to breeding age and then breed themselves and there has to be enough of them to provide diversity in the gene pool to develop a wild fishery. Can it happen, yes. And it appears to be more likely lately but I am not so sure we are seeing this as multiple year classes and biomass eligible for classification. Stay tuned. The more of it we see the more likely it will become. The question is do we want it? Certainly once it does gain a foothold the natural transition will be for the carrying capacity to overflow into the Little J. DO we want that?

This is a question for the PF&BC to ponder. The illegal stocking of trout in the Spruce (a class A wild brown trout stream) by private means influencing the wild brown population not only there but also in its receiving stream the Little Juniata River.

My guess is they will ignore until there is some kind of crash and controversy. The laws are on the books for them to enforce but they don't enforce them.

Posted on: 2013/1/7 22:42
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Re: Spruce Creek, Huntingdon County 11/12/2012

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We'll they conveniently only have the Harvey Section classified as class A water. So technically they are not in violation of their own policy.


Posted on: 2013/1/8 7:59


Re: Spruce Creek, Huntingdon County 11/12/2012

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Quote:

albud1962 wrote:
We'll they conveniently only have the Harvey Section classified as class A water. So technically they are not in violation of their own policy.



Bingo!

Posted on: 2013/1/8 9:56
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Re: Spruce Creek, Huntingdon County 11/12/2012

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Maurice - just curious what your thoughts are on wild bows in the Little J. In PA we don't have many, but out west there are plenty of good rivers with both rainbows and browns. I certainly wouldn't want rainbows displacing native brookies - but if they displace some browns and share the river with them would that be bad? Maybe it would - I don't have any idea.

Just curious if there's a reason to think that wild rainbows would negatively impact the overall quality of the fishery.


Posted on: 2013/1/9 19:39
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Re: Spruce Creek, Huntingdon County 11/12/2012
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EZ, Thats a good question and I am not sure I have an opinion on it. I like the idea of diversity in species. Rainbows fight differently and seem to be more aerobatic than browns. But Browns rise more consistantly than Bows. And if a carrying capacity is achieved (or perhaps it already has) with the browns then adding bows to the equation will reduce the brown population and thus the numbers of rising fish. IMO

But as I said above, its a far cry from happening at this stage. The question is, What does the F&BC want a a management strategy for the river . And will they allow it to proliferate if recognized at the early stages...should it begin to occur.

Posted on: 2013/1/9 23:26
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Re: Spruce Creek, Huntingdon County 11/12/2012
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Quote:

Maurice wrote:
The question is, What does the F&BC want a a management strategy for the river . And will they allow it to proliferate if recognized at the early stages...should it begin to occur.


Agreed that having some diversity of species is a good thing. On larger waters with a wide range of physical characteristics such as the LJ it seems to me that some expansion of rainbows may not be a zero sum game with respect to browns and may produce more fishing opportunities in faster water and riffle areas etc(?).

With respect to the PFBC and management strategy, I'd guess that they would be inclined to let nature run its course. If bows become established in the LJ....what else could reasonably be done anyway? They could try removing them by electrofishing but this would probably be impossible for such a large water way that has bows coming in from tribs like Spruce. Selective harvest? Perhaps. Considering the headache the PFBC is experiencing over proposed efforts to remove rainbows from Big Spring.....I'd think the last thing they would want to deal with is something similar on the LJ. I really think they'll just let the issue go and whatever happens, happens.

Posted on: 2013/1/10 7:39


Re: Spruce Creek, Huntingdon County 11/12/2012
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Agree with both Maurice and Fishidiot above.

I've fished the Upper Delaware River for a long time and the bows and browns seem to thrive side-by-side. Interesting fact is the bows lived there first.

On the D River, the bows tend to populate the mainstem, lower down in the River than the browns in the warmer water. Also, from the anglers standpoint, the bows usually inhabit the faster water, feed more during the day, and fight and jump like there's no tomorrow.

Anyone that has fished out-west knows first hand that both bows and browns inhabit many of the famous and not-so-famous rivers and streams.

Finally, as Fishidiot wrote above.......whatchagunnadoaboutit anyway?

Posted on: 2013/1/10 7:52


Re: Spruce Creek, Huntingdon County 11/12/2012

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My initial reaction is to think that it's not a bad thing. I've fished rivers out west with rainbows, browns, brookies and cutts - they each seem to find a niche.

Obviously it's not ideal to have invasive species out competing native - but since that's not the case, then I think it could be fun to have some rainbows in the little j.

As you say though whatever's gonna happen is gonna happen

Posted on: 2013/1/10 8:29
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Re: Spruce Creek, Huntingdon County 11/12/2012

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Wild or not there are already alot of Rainbows in the little J. I think it will be a good thing to have populations of both browns and rainbows. One thing that I have noticed, is that the browns and bows seem to inhabit different types of water in the J. Most of the times I fish it, The bows will be in shallower runs with a little ledge, and there always seem to be more than one when you find some.

Posted on: 2013/1/14 12:41


Re: Spruce Creek, Huntingdon County 11/12/2012

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^Bingo...browns and rainbows are adapted to hang out in different types of water. I've heard that rainbows will hold in fast water and move into slower water to grab food, while browns and brookies do the exact opposite. can't say I've paid enough attention to this while fishing to back that up. They are shaped differently.

Unless there are some good native brookie tribs that rainbows could move into, I see no issue with rainbows in the LJ. I like their fighting style better than browns although a big one of either species is gonna be a good fight.

Posted on: 2013/1/14 20:56
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Re: Spruce Creek, Huntingdon County 11/12/2012

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Why do people favor browns over rainbows? Some people treat browns like they are a native fish or something. Both rainbows and browns are not native to Pennsylvania. Browns aren't even native to this continent. As long as People aren't finding any rainbows in brookie streams, I am OK with them taken residence in some of our streams. I think we should allow rainbows and browns to fight it out and see which one wins out on the different streams. Why should we prevent one non-native fish from taking up shop in the neighborhood of another?






















Posted on: 2013/1/15 22:55



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