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EERRR NYMPHING

Joined:
2006/9/9 22:43
From Delaware Co.
Posts: 3430
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I'm still new to this sport and want to pick alot of your brains, about nymphing. First I would like to know what kind of leader to use specifically tippet size and lenth. And how do you know if you are getting a good drift ,and what to look for to tell if its a good drift and if the fly is getting down deep enough to the fish since most of fish now are hugging the bottom now. Also tandem rigs with two nymphs, is this a good way to nymph and what would be a good setup to use through winter. Also any info on different techniques such high sticking, swing , ect. Any info that you guys and girls can give, would be very helpful for me on my quest for knowledge .

Thanks Fred

Posted on: 2006/12/5 8:40


Re: EERRR NYMPHING
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2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
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A lot of questions. First of all, tandem / multiple flies work well throughout the year. I would recommend that a beginning fly fisherman use a single fly to stay away from tangles.

I would recommend using a knotless tapered leader the length of your rod tapered down to 4X. Tie on a tippet of 4X. 5X is called for with smaller nymphs size 16 and smaller and/or clear water. The tippet you tie on should be 1.5 to 2 times the depth of the water. Put on strike indicator near the junction of the tippet and the leader. Try the twist on strike indicators, they work okay and can be moved up and down the line. Use a weighted nymph if you can find them and/or use a small split shot 8+/- inches above the fly. Cast upstream, or up and across stream. Make short casts, don’t worry about distance, concentrate on getting a good drift. Hold as much line off the water as you can with your rod held high, and follow the indicator downstream. Strip in line to eliminate slack as your indecator floats towards you. Your indicator should drift the same speed or a little slower than the current. Watch the bubbles or floating debris to judge the correct speed. When your indicator begins dragging, try to flip your fly line and leader upstream of the indicator (mending). Watch the indicator for any movement or change of direction and tighten your line to set the hook. If you are fishing properly you should touch the bottom on your drift once in a while. If you don’t touch bottom add another small shot. Once you begin touching the bottom on your drift, you can make fine adjustments by moving you indicator up or down.

Learning to get a good drift is the key to catching trout on nymphs.
There are no magic flies. Stick with the standards: hares ear, pheasant tail, maybe a green weenie, and a copper john in size 12 - 18. Have some wooly buggers on hand too.

I see you’re from Delaware County. I live in neighboring Chester County. PM me and maybe we can “hook up” to fish together sometime. Good luck.

Posted on: 2006/12/5 9:48


Re: EERRR NYMPHING

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2006/9/11 13:05
From Lewistown
Posts: 3593
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Well Said!

The only thing I can add is, PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE.
You will learn a couple of tricks on your own and what works for you.

Posted on: 2006/12/5 15:53
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Re: EERRR NYMPHING

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2006/9/9 17:18
From lancaster county
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that was alot of questions. MKern was right, do what works best for you.

as for me i like 6x leader in any situation. just my preference. tandem rigs with a dry i belive is best. although i high stick most of the time. one trick i learned about high sticking is not to keep alot of tension on the line with a light leader. i usually let the fish have a few inches. not to much that he doesnt hook himself but enough that a big fish wont snap me off. nymphing is a feeling as well as a skill, learned best by practice. good luck.....it takes alot to learn this sport, but its well worth it!

Posted on: 2006/12/5 17:29
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Re: EERRR NYMPHING

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2006/9/9 22:43
From Delaware Co.
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Thanks for the information guys and now its time for me to put this information to use and
Quote:
PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE

Thanks, FRED

Posted on: 2006/12/9 9:29


Re: EERRR NYMPHING

Joined:
2007/1/2 15:46
From York, PA
Posts: 49
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Quote:
I would recommend using a knotless tapered leader the length of your rod tapered down to 4X. Tie on a tippet of 4X. 5X is called for with smaller nymphs size 16 and smaller and/or clear water. The tippet you tie on should be 1.5 to 2 times the depth of the water.


Let me see if I have this right. Suppose I have an 8ft rod and I'm fishing water that is 4 feet deep. I need a knotless tapered leader that is 8ft and tapers to 4x, then I should tie on tippet (lets say 4x) of about 8 feet, for a total of 16ft of what I would call "leader" from the fly line.

The whole leader length size confuses me as to different situations, I'm used to tying on a lure directly to the line or shock leader. Thanks

Posted on: 2007/1/17 21:40
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Re: EERRR NYMPHING

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2006/9/10 21:53
From Greensburg, PA
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Quote:

afishinado wrote:


I would recommend using a knotless tapered leader the length of your rod tapered down to 4X. Tie on a tippet of 4X. 5X is called for with smaller nymphs size 16 and smaller and/or clear water. The tippet you tie on should be 1.5 to 2 times the depth of the water.


Good luck is right...That really doesn't make much sense unless you didn't mean it to come out that way. If my tippet should be 2x the depth of the water, why is it i'll use a shorter, say 7ft leader to nymph and longer, say 9 ft leader for dries. I ususally use about 18 inches of tippet when fishing dries and less if i'm nymphing. Too much unsensitive slack floating around. I've also been known to use a 9ft leader whether my rod 7ft or 9ft long. Maybe i'm just doing it all wrong but I think your formula needs adjusting.

Posted on: 2007/1/17 22:17


Re: EERRR NYMPHING
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2006/9/9 19:16
From Dallastown, PA
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Quote:

tomgamber wrote:
Quote:

afishinado wrote:


I would recommend using a knotless tapered leader the length of your rod tapered down to 4X. Tie on a tippet of 4X. 5X is called for with smaller nymphs size 16 and smaller and/or clear water. The tippet you tie on should be 1.5 to 2 times the depth of the water.


Good luck is right...That really doesn't make much sense unless you didn't mean it to come out that way. If my tippet should be 2x the depth of the water, why is it i'll use a shorter, say 7ft leader to nymph and longer, say 9 ft leader for dries. I ususally use about 18 inches of tippet when fishing dries and less if i'm nymphing. Too much unsensitive slack floating around. I've also been known to use a 9ft leader whether my rod 7ft or 9ft long. Maybe i'm just doing it all wrong but I think your formula needs adjusting.


Tom,

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the 1.5-2X longer tippet is in reference to distance for strike indicators when nymphing. I agree with your formula, shorter when nymphing and longer on drys. Say a 9 ft to 4X with 3 ft of 5X for drys. For nymphing, a 7-7.5' with 2-3 ft of 4-5X depending on clarity.

But you have to consider I get my leaders from parking lot gravel beds and from friends who throw them away. Then I build them out from there. The mechanical end (butt section) is far less important than the business end. (tippet)

Maurice

Posted on: 2007/1/17 23:39
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Re: EERRR NYMPHING
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2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
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The point I was trying to make to a beginning fly fisherman, about the leader being close to the length of the rod, was for easier casting and control and to keep it simple in the beginning. What Maurice said is exactly right, the 1.5 – 2x the water depth is the indicator depth. I generally use a leader formula similar to what Maurice uses. I start with a 71/2 tapered leader tapered to 3x or 4x, and add 11/2 – 3’ of 4x or 5x to it, depending on the depth of the water (tippet length), and the water clarity and fly size (tippet diameter).

If the water was 4 or 5 feet deep and swift, I probably wouldn’t use an indicator. With all the weight it would take to get to the bottom, I don’t believe my nephew’s plastic Snoopy bobber could keep it afloat. I often see guys with their indicator all the way up their leader next to their fly line, wondering why they ain’t hittin’. I wouldn’t expect to be able to see the indicator move when the fly is 9 or 10 feet from the indicator with all the slack created by the heavy leader bowing in the current. I fished the Ausable River in the Adirondacks this past season, and that river gives new meaning to high gradient fast water. There I resorted to using no leader on certain sections of the river. I tied straight 3x to my fly line and used heavily weighted flies and shot to cut through the current to reach the bottom. That’s an extreme case.

I find an indicator is necessary to fish across multiple current speeds on the stream. Using it allows me to hold the line off the water and mend to the indicator. If I use an indicator, I adjust it to 1.5x (slower current) to 2x (faster current) the depth of the water. If I don’t touch the bottom on the drift I continue to add weight until I do. Fine adjustments can be made by moving the indicator after you have the right amount of weight. As I move, I constantly adjust both the indicator depth and the weight until it’s right again (ticking the bottom). Where I can wade out and fish in the same current lane I use a similar leader/tippet rig without an indicator. I fish either similar to Czech nymphing (off the tip), or Joe Humphries style (straight upstream). When I fish that way I use feel as much as sight to detect strikes and feel the bottom – like the old bait fishing days. You can cheat a little and use the a little strike putty, small pieces of fly line on your leader, or brightly colored line for better visibility.

I use the same leader for drys and build it out in steps to 4x, 5x, or 6x, depending on the water clarity and the size of the fly. My dry fly leader usually ends up averaging around 12’. I only tie on a longer leader in special situations (spooky trout clear water). Another special situation is when I use a 6-7’ rod for small stream fishing. I scale down the leader/tippet to around 7’ total for better control in tight casting areas. I custom tie a steep tapered leader for those conditions.

I usually use the butt end of knotless tapered leaders and rebuild the end taper to suit my needs. You can also tie a knotted leader from scratch using the leader formulas available. A few leaders last me a long time. Like Maurice, I too have been known to “forage” for leaders on the stream or in the parking lot, some I throw in the trash (where they belong), some I rebuild. You don’t have to use the leader exactly as it is right out of the package. I experiment with ways of tapering your own leaders to meet conditions. One rule that applies is don’t taper a leader with diameters greater than 2/1000’s (2 tippet sizes) at a time near the tippet end of the leader. In other words you can’t go from 3x to 6x in one step. Good Luck.

Posted on: 2007/1/18 12:34


Re: EERRR NYMPHING

Joined:
2006/9/9 22:43
From Delaware Co.
Posts: 3430
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My question Afish is when are you going to take me out and show me this stuff. Are you going to Jacks trip to the Smokies I'm going you should come it looks like its going to be a blast . I wish I could post cell phone pics on here I caught a 20+inch Rainbow and a 18inch Brookie from nymphing since I started this thread...

Posted on: 2007/1/19 3:19


Re: EERRR NYMPHING
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2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
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Fredrick - I'll PM you when I can find the time to fish. I've been busy at home and work and haven't fished in a while. 18 & 20 inch fish!! Maybe you can teach me some stuff!!

Posted on: 2007/1/19 9:04


Re: EERRR NYMPHING

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2007/1/23 20:26
From Emigrant, Mt
Posts: 620
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Fredrick, welcome to fly fishing. Being from Deco, and having lived in Chester Co, I know your area very well. I grew up on Chester crick. To get started and for fishing your local streams for stocked trout keep things simple.

For flies get some glow bugs, small buggers, some small, size 8 to 12 streamers, a few SJ worms and a few pheasent tails and hairs ears. I would go more with buggers and glow bugs one your locale streams, ie Ridley.

For leaders on local streams you can get by with 7 1/2 4 or 5 x. Start with 4x. Like I said, on your locale streams you are going for stocked trout. When you start with a new tappered leader there is no need to add tippet right away, but learn the blood and surgeon's knots. I highly recommend a strike indicator, 1 to 2 times the depth of the water. Use enough weight to get to the bottom. If you are not getting snagged or junk on your flies often add weight. If you get hung up on every cast, take some off.

Remember, short, accurate casts with a good drift will get you more fish than long flailing casts. In most trout fly fishing mending is extremely important. Learn to mend and control your drifts. Again, shorter casts makes this easier. Detecting the strike is something we all have to work on. This is a never ending apsect of fly fishing. Time on the water is what it takes.

Reading the water is probably more important in nymphing than dry fly fishing, to rising fish that is. Structure, structure and more structure. This can be everything from an obvious rock breaking the surface to a very subtle depression on the bottom. Reading the water is the single most important component that makes a good fly fishermen an even better one.

Have fun, and keep asking questions

Posted on: 2007/1/28 13:34


Re: EERRR NYMPHING

Joined:
2007/4/8 20:43
From SEPA
Posts: 11270
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halcyon days.


Posted on: 2012/3/21 23:21
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Re: EERRR NYMPHING

Joined:
2011/3/31 12:18
From Clearfield
Posts: 2491
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Get Dynamic Nymphing by George Daniel, all your answers are there.

Posted on: 2012/3/22 7:07
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Re: EERRR NYMPHING
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Joined:
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From Chester County
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Quote:

gfen wrote:
halcyon days.




Gary,

Dredging the bottom for stuff from the old days?!?

Back then Fredrick was a minnow.....now he's now a shark!!

BTW, I hooked up with Fredrick right after that post, and we've been friends and fished together ever since. I can't believe it's been 5 years already! That's one of the great things about this site.

Posted on: 2012/3/22 7:25



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