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Re: The Spotburning Thread
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Quote:

BMarx wrote:
Well Dkile himself said the site gets around 170,000 uniques with 5,000 registered members. That means registered members not logged in don't count as one of the 170,000 uniques. And even if everyone had 2 computers and browsed without logging on with their other computer that would still only be 10k out of 170,000.

You can be a smart alec all you want Jack, you're still not correct.


Thanks. I'll take your comments under advisement.

By the way, 5 registered (logged) 7 anonymous. This thread is great for learning the error of my ways.

Posted on: 2012/2/7 12:08
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I don't like spinach, and I'm glad I don't, because if I liked it I'd eat it, and I just hate it. --Clarence Darrow


Re: The Spotburning Thread

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"There are about 170,000 uniques that come to the site, we only have about 5,000 registered members." - David Kile

= Jack is not correct in his smartbuttedness.

Posted on: 2012/2/7 12:09


Re: The Spotburning Thread
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Ladies and Gentlemen:

Jack is not right, again. Mark this date on your calendars.

Posted on: 2012/2/7 12:10
_________________
I don't like spinach, and I'm glad I don't, because if I liked it I'd eat it, and I just hate it. --Clarence Darrow


Re: The Spotburning Thread

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Quote:
Ladies and Gentlemen: Jack is not right, again. Mark this date on your calendars.



internet trolls pics on Sodahead

Posted on: 2012/2/7 12:13


Re: The Spotburning Thread

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The point of “beating a certain stream to death” wasn’t to try and change anything with that stream, the reality is that stream has been damaged 16 months ago by others, so the continued “beating it to death” was to clearly illustrate and let other people know what can happen to a stream, even a “famous and well known stream,” when unnecessary attention gets brought to it. People debate spot burning and stream reports and those that don’t want to believe it can happen continually say, “Show me the proof, show me data.” Well, what I was trying to do was show you the proof.

I fished that stream probably 400+ times from sunup to sundown from spring 2006 to September 2010 so I know exactly what was going on with that stream and I saw what happened immediately after people started making posts glorifying the stream and the renovation work - around November 2010 – there was a HUGE increase in SUSTAINED fishing pressure and the stream has deteriorated as a result. From November 2010 to today I watched this 1 mile C&R section go from a world class wild trout fishery that held massive numbers of trout, flew under the radar screen and had very few fishermen to a stretch that is now overrun by fishermen and the overall trout population and habitat in the 1 mile C&R stretch has degraded substantially. This isn’t about ruining my experience it’s about ruining the stream. It’s still a decent stream, better than most, but 99% of the fly fishermen on this forum had no clue what was actually there and they never will get to experience it but they see what it currently is like and because it’s better than most streams, they don’t believe what I am saying and try and make me look like a liar with some hidden agenda. Yes, I do have an agenda - I don’t want to see the next under the radar stream get outted like this one was and ruined. The stream fishes at a fraction of what it was but unfortunately that fraction is still much better than most other streams so nobody can fully understand the magnitude of what actually happened. I was there for 5 years and saw it and the reality is this 1 mile C&R section simply can’t handle 20-30 fishermen, which is what the attention of 16 months ago brought to this stream, so what I am doing is bringing attention to what happened to the stream and I blame glorifying stream reports as a major cause. This isn’t to help BS because the damage has been done but to make others aware of what can happen to a stream by bringing attention to it and hopefully people will think before they report on a stream.

As for the argument about stream reports spread out pressure, at face value it makes sense but it really doesn’t hold water except in certain instances. I will use the ½ mile Penn State stretch of Spruce Creek as an example.

Everyone knows about SC and this stretch but what do you think would happen if someone came on here and made a glorifying post boasting of a great BWO hatch yesterday and how trout were rising everywhere and they caught 14 trout with several in the 12-16” range? You don’t think other people would go based on that posting? I’ll bet some will. I’m not saying someone in Potter County would drive to Spruce based on a stream report but it wouldn’t surprise me if 3-4 people who otherwise would have fished the Little J today decided instead to fish the ½ mile section of SC so at face value it’s a wash – the LJ benefits from 3 less fishermen at the expense of SC. That is wrong because 3 people not fishing the LJ has a negligible effect on the LJ but those 3 extra people hitting that ½ mile stretch on SC have a tremendous impact on SC. Now if the 3 people left the LJ for Penns, that’s a wash and only in that situation of people leaving a stream to fish a like stream does that argument hold water.


Posted on: 2012/2/7 12:38


Re: The Spotburning Thread
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What if 30 people left the Little J section only from the Barree Gorge parking lot up to SRC property in order to go, three at a time, to Spruce, Warrior's Mark, Tipton, Plum, Clover, Piney, Frankie, Yellow, Galbraith, Slab Cabin, Tea, Hay, Honey, bring me a beer?

Now, I can have my run of the Gorge on the Little J, and for that, I thank you.

Posted on: 2012/2/7 12:45
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I don't like spinach, and I'm glad I don't, because if I liked it I'd eat it, and I just hate it. --Clarence Darrow


Re: The Spotburning Thread

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What if the rabbit didn't stop to crap it would have beaten the turtle, too.

Posted on: 2012/2/7 12:48


Re: The Spotburning Thread

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But you'd have to actually fish in order to enjoy that. You fish far less than most fishermen on this board, as exhibited by your contributions. So you really don't have a clue about the spread out pressure because you cannot see it from your office.

Unless you remote cameras set along all these streams.

I can personally echo the exact same thing GW has seen. There is no better data than boots in the water on stream observation. Not to mention spending enough time on certain streams to build up relationships with landowners as well who frequently express disdain and regret now that they see people nonstop fishing where prior to the glory posts, they saw noone.

Posted on: 2012/2/7 12:51


Re: The Spotburning Thread
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So you are saying my example is a fairy tale? I feel likewise. I do not buy people's claims to observing an overrun stream after a report on PAFF or elsewhere.

EX:

Someone posts that Green Drakes are hatching June 1 on Penns. The stream is crowded June 2. Is it because the Green Drakes ARE hatching, or because someone mentioned it on PAFF?

Posted on: 2012/2/7 12:52
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I don't like spinach, and I'm glad I don't, because if I liked it I'd eat it, and I just hate it. --Clarence Darrow


Re: The Spotburning Thread

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Jack you know as well as I do you are now reaching apples and oranges status.

Posted on: 2012/2/7 12:55


Re: The Spotburning Thread
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BMarx, I have had to tell you not to make the assumption of how much and where I fish. People I give a hoot what they think know better. But you are correct in observing how often I've been fishing since about last June. Prior to about then, I suspect I fished the same or twice as much as you suggest "everyone" else does.

Posted on: 2012/2/7 12:55
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I don't like spinach, and I'm glad I don't, because if I liked it I'd eat it, and I just hate it. --Clarence Darrow


Re: The Spotburning Thread
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Quote:

BMarx wrote:
Jack you know as well as I do you are now reaching apples and oranges status.


You will need to be more explicit if you expect me to understand that. Is it an argument or a cop out?

Posted on: 2012/2/7 12:57
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I don't like spinach, and I'm glad I don't, because if I liked it I'd eat it, and I just hate it. --Clarence Darrow


Re: The Spotburning Thread

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The stream reports about catching tons of fish have nothing to do with reporting flies showing up on penn's creek, which has about 5 fly shops monitoring it and posting the emergence of any hatch. This does not in any way shape manner or form compare to outting small streams based on fishing success.

I am not saying don't post about hatches. I am saying don't come on everytime you catch 10 trout and blab about it when the stream you caught them on falls into a certain category.

Apples and Oranges.

Posted on: 2012/2/7 12:59


Re: The Spotburning Thread
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So the category is what? "Streams BMarx deems sensitive?"

Go:

Seven Springs, Six Mile Creek, Five Mountains, Four Points, Three Forks,

DING!

"Streams BMarx deems sensitive?"

DING, DING, DING, DING DING!

Posted on: 2012/2/7 13:05
_________________
I don't like spinach, and I'm glad I don't, because if I liked it I'd eat it, and I just hate it. --Clarence Darrow


Re: The Spotburning Thread

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And so BMarx, you're obvously the one to decide which streams fall into that 'certain class?'

Posted on: 2012/2/7 13:06



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