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Stocking a Class A |
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Joined:
2010/8/5 20:05 Posts: 39
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Should the PA Fish & Boat stock over a Class A? The argument I hear most is that it will adversely affect the wild population. I am sure this topic has come up before but I am going bring it up again here. I'm curious as to the thoughts of everyone on this forum. If I am beating a dead horse please direct me to the appropriate thread.
Hear is a scenario for you...you have a creek that has been stocked for a very, very, very long time and it has a strong following from stocked trout anglers in early spring, and wild trout anglers all year round. It maintains consistently high numbers of wild fish. It is obviously a Class A wild trout population, say brown trout. Also, consider this question in terms for a brook trout fishery. Should it be stocked? Consider this before responding; despite the continual planting of hatchery fish, stream X has consistently maintained a high density of wild fish. Also consider that this is a very popular spot for bait anglers, lure angles, and fly fishermen. And finally consider that, should PFBC designate CLass A and discontinue stocking, this stream is now prime for the private fly fishing club to coerce landowners into leasing their property and posting to the public. Do we not want to promote our sport of fishing, and also perpetuate environmental stewardship by asking the PFBC to manage for multiple users? Kris
Posted on: 2012/3/23 23:23
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Re: Stocking a Class A |
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Moderator
 
Joined:
2006/9/9 17:32 From Gettysburg
Posts: 7448
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The agency's rule is to not stock over Class A populations. There are a few exceptions to this.
If a stream has not been revealed to be Class A by survey and is instead a popular stocked fishery, the PFBC tends to keep it as an ATW. Should they survey these and upgrade them to Class A? Certainly yes in my opinion. However, when a popular stocked fishery is taken off the stocking list the agency just gets pounded by local, traditional anglers. We're talking letters to state legislatures, petitions, etc. I don't blame the agency for being reluctant to survey popular ATWs. They must maintain a balanced approach revolving around compromise so as to satisfy their diverse constituency.
Posted on: 2012/3/24 5:30
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Re: Stocking a Class A |
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2009/2/19 19:59 From Mont Co, Pa
Posts: 1638
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Yea, this is a dead horse and there's plenty of threads that cover this subject. Try a search.
Posted on: 2012/3/24 6:47
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Protect the resource, let them go! |
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Re: Stocking a Class A |
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Joined:
2011/5/9 15:37 From Ohio
Posts: 689
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IMO if it's a popular stocked trout stream AND still has a pretty high population of wild trout and is popular with both stocked and wild trout fisherman I say if it aint broke don't fix it.
Posted on: 2012/3/24 8:17
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Re: Stocking a Class A |
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2011/5/3 12:22 From South Lebanon Township, PA
Posts: 1456
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IMO this issue applies more to "good" wild trout streams (Class B's and C's) that are stocked, as opposed to "great" wild trout streams (Class A's). There just aren't too many legit under the radar year to year consistent Class A's that are being hidden as ATW's...most of the these have been flushed out and had their management status changed. Are there still some out there probably though...sure.
The general argument is that if you stop stocking a Class B or C, it should increase the wild trout biomass, possibly to Class A status. IIRC however, this isn't what the PFBC has seen in some of their test waters on this issue. It's been a mixed bag...some got better, some got worse, some stayed the same...and all of those fluctuations could have been affected by other yearly or seasonal factors...water flows, Summer temps, flood events, etc. My opinion is that it needs to be looked at on a stream by stream basis...looking at both the stream itself, and its angler usage. In most cases of a wild trout stream being stocked over as an ATW, I'm not sure the couple hundred stockies that get dumped in in the Spring really effect anything. By Fall, all the stockies are gone (and so are the guys that only fish on opening weekend), and all I catch are the wild trout again. Again, on a stream by stream basis though...there may be a bigger impact on some of the more heavily stocked wild streams - YB/Tully/Clarks for instance.
Posted on: 2012/3/24 8:33
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Re: Stocking a Class A |
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Joined:
2007/1/30 10:05 From Jersey Shore, PA
Posts: 366
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Couple of points to consider.
It is important to understand that there are no designated class A streams currently stocked. It is against the PA Code. It is a fact that surveys have revealed that some streams hold populations which meet or exceed the threshold to meet class A. These streams have not been recommended to PFBC to be designated as such. A prime example is Little Lehigh Creek in Allentown. There are a number of others. It has been determined, based on more than one study, that a wild trout population is negatively impacted by the introduction of hatchery trout. It is more so with an abundany wild trout population. Excluding other factors which may impact a wild trout population, most of the time the wild population will increase subsequent to the cessation of stocking. As for a wild trout stream which has been added to the class A list, I find it hard to believe this would be so appealing to a private club. In order to solicit membership the club would be promoting the potential to catch large trout and this would require them to stock the hogs their clients want to catch. This would be a prohibited practice in a designated wild trout stream. Dave R.
Posted on: 2012/3/24 8:51
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Re: Stocking a Class A |
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Joined:
2006/10/18 20:22 From NC PA Mountains
Posts: 792
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Quote:
Dave, Did you know that Pine creek from it's headwaters down to the Genesee Forks in West Pike is classified as class A. Up where Pine turns north along Rt 6 is the Brookland Club. That section of stream is posted for use by members only. They do stock it. They have been doing it for years.
Posted on: 2012/3/24 9:10
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Re: Stocking a Class A |
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Joined:
2010/1/21 17:06 From Southwest, Pa
Posts: 1069
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holy shit
Posted on: 2012/3/24 10:42
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Sure, we can assiduously three-quarter our wets down stream, mend, and wait out each fly swing, which to my way of thinking, anyway, relegates to the angler to role of butler, rather than nemesis. -Art Lee |
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Re: Stocking a Class A |
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Joined:
2006/11/10 8:32 Posts: 1191
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Dave R: "It has been determined, based on more than one study, that a wild trout population is negatively impacted by the introduction of hatchery trout."
Dave: A peer reviewed scientific paper just published in the professional jouirnal The Transactions of the American Fisheries Society is challenging that generality. When adult, catchable-size, hatchery rainbow trout were stocked over a dozen wild rainbow trout populations- 1 dozen streams- in Idaho (and each stream had a comparable control study segment) there was no impact on abundance, survival, growth, or recruitment; that is, there were no population level effects. More on that later.
Posted on: 2012/3/24 10:46
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Re: Stocking a Class A |
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Joined:
2012/2/3 16:30 From Clarion co.
Posts: 256
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Stocking over wild fish is wrong no matter how you spin it. I say take any natural reproducing stream off of the stocking list and stock a new stream. I do however understand the demand, so stocking is very important, but it should be done correctly.
Posted on: 2012/3/24 10:55
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Re: Stocking a Class A |
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Joined:
2006/9/9 11:22 From New Castle, PA
Posts: 1345
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Quote:
I'm all for removing wild trout streams from the stocking list but being on the wild trout list does not mean there will be a quality fishery. If you tried hard enough, or got lucky you, could probably find wild trout in many of our marginal stocked waters. That doesn't mean we should try to make them all wild trout fisheries. The trout may be filling a very small niche in the watershed and not be plentiful enough to suport any sort of sport fishery. Kev
Posted on: 2012/3/24 11:15
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Re: Stocking a Class A |
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Joined:
2006/9/9 17:18 From lancaster county
Posts: 6165
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Quote:
Dave: A peer reviewed scientific paper just published in the professional jouirnal The Transactions of the American Fisheries Society is challenging that generality. When adult, catchable-size, hatchery rainbow trout were stocked over a dozen wild rainbow trout populations- 1 dozen streams- in Idaho (and each stream had a comparable control study segment) there was no impact on abundance, survival, growth, or recruitment; that is, there were no population level effects. More on that later. Did they have a 1st day and 2nd stocking with a 5 fish a day creel limit? Quote: It is important to understand that there are no designated class A streams currently stocked. It is against the PA Code. Correct some what. Plenty of clubs stock class A waters with permits granted by the PFBC. The PFBC won't stock them as it is against the code but they will let others do so and do so often.
Posted on: 2012/3/24 15:02
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Re: Stocking a Class A |
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Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/9 9:29 From Monessen, PA
Posts: 19596
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How often, and how widespread, praytell?
I know this can be an emotional issue for some, but last time I tried to quantify this, I discovered it was actually accurate to refer to the phenomenon as "rare."
Posted on: 2012/3/24 15:11
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_________________
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Re: Stocking a Class A |
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Joined:
2006/9/9 17:18 From lancaster county
Posts: 6165
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I dunno Jack, I dont.
When I say do so and do so often, I mean they allow it each and every year. Off the top of my head I can think of 8 watersheds. I'm sure there are more. There was a list that got leaked out once. Anyone got it?
Posted on: 2012/3/24 15:30
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Re: Stocking a Class A |
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Joined:
2008/8/24 20:26 From Mount Joy, PA
Posts: 1812
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What I've often wondered is if some of these streams weren't stocked, would harvest affect the stream to a point that there would be no fish left? Can a given stream support harvest and replenish population on a yearly basis? The answers to those questions probably depends on each stream and its biomass.
Posted on: 2012/3/24 16:43
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