Regulation Changes from Pa Fish & Boat Commission

TimRobinsin

TimRobinsin

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My apologies if this has been brought up before. I just stumbled across this. interesting.


http://fishandboat.com/reg398.htm#rule255
 
I know some people who might have something to say about this. Local waters.
 
TimRobinsin wrote:
I know some people who might have something to say about this. Local waters.

You go first.
 
TR,
I have made some minor changes by placing a title in the subject box that reflects the topic of the thread. It is also a nice courtesy to our readers if the body of the post actually explains what the subject is so they don't have to click the link to find out what the thread is about.

In this case, the topic is a list of regulation changes covering a broad array of issues related to fishing in PA.

Should someone wish to comment, they should address a specific change, and then follow with their opinion/comment....otherwise this thread is going to become very confusing and fragmented.
 
The linked page shows many regs change proposals.

But he specified #255, which is the proposal to allow continued stocking on some Class A streams.

Big brouhaha brewing on this one.
 
simply more "good ole boy" status quo at work here.
money will always win over wild trout.
 
Is this different than the Class A proposal that we already beat to death or is this just the winter version of that beating?
 
Basically, to sum it up.

Some popular stocked streams were found to have class A biomass. Current regulations state that if they upgrade them to class A, they couldn't be stocked.

Most of us are gonna say the RIGHT thing to do is upgrade them and end the stocking. But right or not, it's not realistic. Our real options are:

1. Don't upgrade them. Keep stocking them. They don't get upgraded watershed protection.

2. Upgrade them. Change the regs so that they can keep stocking them. They do get upgraded watershed protection.

^^^This is the proposal which changes those regs. Only for these particular streams, they can't start stocking class A's that aren't already stocked. And they will only continue stocking them IF they are already exceedingly popular with the stocky crowd.

Given those options I'll take #2, with the stipulation that the PFBC advertise to the public that they are class A with wild fish and hopefully we can slowly change angler views on them towards a non-stocking situation.

i.e. I'd like to slowly scale back the stocking #'s while increasing awareness of the wild fishery. i.e. the right idea, but take away the shock factor, ease the stocky crowd into it.
 
Fishidiot- Thanks, I was not trying to intentionally cause confusion. My hopes are that people will find the link useful and read the full intent of the changes to PFBC policy.

Others- While this subject may have been "beat to death" I would be interested in reading your approach. More importantly I would be interested in reading what you wrote to the PFBC as the public hearing session regarding this change has not been closed.

My intent in asking an open ended question was to evaluate and discern valid concerns from all sides regarding the change. Obviously I have an initial opinion of the changes but I know that I am not aware of all the concerns and I wish to educate myself on the various views of the changes.

I acknowledged this subject may have been opened before but regardless of how many times it has been broached I hope that anyone with a valid point takes the time to express their opinion to the PFBC to help them make a decision that is in the best interest of all of us.

Troutbert- nice try. I appreciate your attempt to suggest that I have a hidden motive but I don't. I am asking the general forum of participants to add their input into a change they may or may not be aware of. Your response is typical of someone who has a motive of their own and instead of adding to the conversation in the spirit of genuine sportsmanship you have elected to try to cause contraversy of which I have had enough of.

Again, this post was intended to (A) ask those "in the know" their thoughts of said changes. and (B) bring said changes to the attention of those who are not "in the know"

Regardless of where you fall in those two categories, these changes are important and the PFBC wants to hear from you. This is our state and it our sport. I appreciate your input as I am just another angler trying to enjoy our great resource.
 
Pcray - wonderful. I think you are on the right track. there are a lot more facets involved in the stocking program than we realize. I think your approach and reasoning are sound. I would be interested in hearing what the PFBC has to say about it.
 
The list of streams were found to be Class A and have been for many years but were never added to the Class A list. PA Trout Unlimited has been fighting for years to get these streams added to the list.
This subject has been discussed at length in at least one other thread.
While I don't agree with stocking Class A streams, it's still a win, but now we have a state representative asking to continue stocking on Martins Creek, which is to be added to the Class A list and now it's a bigger issue.
I say no more stocking ANY Class A streams.
 
I didn't state or suggest that you have some hidden motive.

I simply pointed out that you are expecting others to express their opinions on a controversial subject. But you did not do that yourself.

IMHO it is a reasonable expectation that when someone starts a thread on a controversial topic, that they express their opinion on the topic.

I probably should have stated it better, such as "Tim, what is your opinion on the PFBC proposal?"

Saying "You go first" was too blunt. My apologies.
 
pcray1231 wrote:
Basically, to sum it up.

Some popular stocked streams were found to have class A biomass. Current regulations state that if they upgrade them to class A, they couldn't be stocked.

I do have to ask...

If we've been stocking these streams for who knows how long, and they are found to have class A biomass, then why are they proposing to change it?

forgive my ignorance as I have no agenda with the matter but is this pretty much saying there are stocked trout in X creek as well as wild trout?

and is the idea to not stock the stream to allow the wild trout to flourish?



 
and is the idea to not stock the stream to allow the wild trout to flourish?

Well, that's what we, as the wild trout snobs, think should happen. Not what's being proposed by the PFBC. We aren't going to get what we want. Some of them are urban streams that are extremely popular with the stocky crowd. And ending the stocking would lead to political battle that frankly, we'd lose. Ending stocking is not a realistic option at this point, at least not in the short term.

Having class A biomass does not make it class A. It means it can be designated as class A by the PFBC, but the official designation is still necessary to make it happen. Class A designation carries increased watershed protections in regards to pollution, as well as regulatory restrictions on stocking.

If us snobs hold out for the end to stocking, we're gonna wind up with nothing. They won't be designated class A. They won't get the increased protections.

This is a compromise, plain and simple. They'll designate it class A, publish it in their lists, add the increased protections, etc. But keep stocking it. It's a compromise that we should take, because it's an improvement to the status quo and we're unlikely to even get that much if we fight.

And we can always take what we can get now and live to fight another day. A decade down the road when this thing is on the class A list, wild trout fishermen are visiting in greater numbers and the locals have more awareness that stocking isn't needed, we can lobby to scale back or eliminate the stocking. Baby steps. You gotta kill the stocky chaser mentality via a thousand paper cuts, cause we'd lose a full-on war.
 
Just to further clarify one thing that pcray said, the waters involved are popular, but not just because the PFBC or anglers say so. Their popularity has been measured through opening day angler counts and compared to the numerous counts from other streams around the state. The sample size is large. These waters have been deemed to be popular because their opening day angler counts exceed the 75 th percentile of such counts taken statewide on, as I recall, an anglers per mile or anglers per kilometer basis.
 
It sounds like catch-22, years and generations of opening day traditions and now with scientific ,not anecdotal , evidence of Class A biomass, you'll be hard pressed to simply stop stocking without either a long term plan or viable alternatives to fishermen's choice of stream. Guys go where the fish are, especially when it's their go to water.
 
Pardon me if I missed this elsewhere, but which specific stream SECTIONS is the PFBC talking about in regards to the Class A stockings in the Lehigh Valley Area?

As a point of reference, the Little Lehigh is stocked in Sections 2 in Berks/Lehigh, Section 4 below Spring Creek (which is rumored to be Class A), Section 5 the FFO stretch and Sections 7 & 9, which are above & below the former Heritage FFO section (Section 8). Section 8 is NOT stocked and SUPPOSED to be Class A yet it is NOT on the Class A list. Besides my educated guess of Section 4, what other section of the Little Lehigh is Class A and presently stocked, Section 7?

Martin’s Creek is stocked in Section 1 (in Bath above Sewer plant) and Section 3 (Below Waltz). Based on the PFBC list, one of those sections is considered unsuitable for stocking so are they considering taking Section 1 or 3, OFF the stocking list?

I am assuming one of the sections of the Monocasy considered is Section 8 below Illick’s Mill Dam (which is also rumored to be Class A). Is Section 9 below that the other section under consideration that is Class A or is it Section 3 below Bath?

Finally, I am also assuming the Pohopoco below Beltzville is the section in question since the rest of it in in Monroe & presently unstocked.

Thanks in advance for any insight provided!
 
I think its an interesting idea. I like the idea, I think the pfbc could do more in depth usage studies through out the year and most importantly use these streams as a unique opportunity to educate a good portion of the public on resource management/preservation/restoration. With the right approach, This type of program would be perfect for getting people to understand that good management of class A water = better fishing that costs less.

the key is if the PFBC can or wants to capitalize on this opportunity.

 
bamboozle-

you are correct about the section of the Monocacy in question. Illick's Mill to the confluence with the Lehigh. I don't think the section in Bath is part of this, but I could be wrong.

As a TU member and heavy user of this section, I find it to be a win for THIS section of stream. I have no experience with other streams in question so I won't comment. The extra protection from development/ runoff/ pollution that will be afforded from Class A designation will outweigh the negative effects (if any) of continued stocking and put and take fishing.

 
not sure if anyone has linked article this here on paff?:

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/01/theres_changes_in_the_water_in.html
 
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