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Re: PFBC Commissioners and Tailwater Wild Trout-Article

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2009/2/11 13:14
From Lehigh Valley
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Chaz is correct..thats why if you ever fish the Rapid River system in Maine and you catch a smallie...big or small throw them up on the bank an let them die.
I would be all for the brookie thing Chaz,alot of folks though prefer the non native Brown Trout and Rainbows..thats fine your milage may vary.
Ill take brooks,rainbows an then browns hell might as well add goldens, all the distinct species of cutthroat and maybe some bull trout too..can they get some marble trout,maybe some Yammame and cherry trout,a few taimen.......ect
Brokies Brookies Brookies Brookies

Posted on: 2012/8/9 23:19


Re: PFBC Commissioners and Tailwater Wild Trout-Article

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A related commission effort, perhaps in cooperation with DEP and with conservation groups such as TU since they are for these projects in the various locations, and certainly with ACOE as partner, should be to develop a tailwater limnology strategy to reduce the incidence and perhaps prevent invasive problems such as Didymo. Unfortunately, no one anywhere in the world is really all that expert so much of what would be done would be experimental.

Examples would be to do periodic releases that mimic storms or runoff, increasing turbidity or stain to water released either as an enduring feature or episodically, and varying the release gates to bring temperatures up or down to mimic the season or conserve cold water for a drought or heatwave.

This is tricky business when you are also trying to provide conditions for spawning and egg development, or provide a water supply, or generate power, etc.


Posted on: 2012/8/10 9:07


Re: PFBC Commissioners and Tailwater Wild Trout-Article

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2012/5/4 9:12
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Perhaps this article about PA Fish and Boat Commission creating Tailwaters in Pennsylvania could be influenced a little from the movie Salmon Fishing in Yemen or whatever it was called... great movie by the way.

Posted on: 2012/8/10 10:01
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Re: PFBC Commissioners and Tailwater Wild Trout-Article

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This is great news!
Can't wait for the Lehigh to improve, there's so much potential there. Congrats to all the groups that have been working for years to make this happen!

Posted on: 2012/8/10 11:19


Re: PFBC Commissioners and Tailwater Wild Trout-Article

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SBecker: What did you mean when you said about Pohopoco Ck; "to investigate further the Pohopoco Creek tailwater potential." I have recently familiarized myself with the trout population there and now wonder what improvement to the tailwater fish population you would like to see. It is very good already.

Posted on: 2012/8/13 21:43


Re: PFBC Commissioners and Tailwater Wild Trout-Article

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2010/6/26 11:19
From Along the Lehigh Above the Gap
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Mike,

I sense that you have recently familiarized yourself with this tailwater, because you took part in the electroshocking that took place today and will take place tomorrow.

What would I like the pfbc do to further enhance the Po? Let's start with them releasing the grant money that was allocated to the LRSA, by the Zinc fund, to install an Alaskan steep ladder to the Parryville monstrosity of a dam.

Next, I have recently witnessed some horrible acts of illegal fishing. Blatent snagging, herding fish and spear fishing them, taking illegal limits, and killing of wild trout that are too small to keep. Basically, as you know, the size of the fish is not great on this stream, but the beauty and amount of wild trout is. The locals have finally realized "holy crap, the water stays cold all year!" and have gone in and begun butchering the wild trout population. I and a few other local conservation groups are looking to persue one or more catch and release sections. The most important being a non stocked portion that provides thermal refuge to wild and stocked Lehigh river trout.

Unfourtunately, I have even called our local officer about an incident. I left my name and phone number with a clear and consice explanation of what I witnessed. I requested a call back, so I could explain what I witnessed again, I NEVER received a call back. This left me sick and disappointed in our officer. I have now resorted to contacting the state parks officer when I witness something. He immediately attends to the situation.

I feel that this stream could be so much more, with the help of the pfbc and local conservation groups. The section of stream that was electroshocked today, that produced fish, could be amazingly better with some structure. I would think you would agree. I hope to be a part of that. I wish you would have electroshocked it a month ago. You would have pooped your pants in the amount and size of the fish. They are gone.

Further, I wish you would electroshock a section that does not get the angler traffic and has some structure. You could then see what I know is possible. This summer I have fished with a few members and have showed them around. Each time when they begin asking about the Po, their first question is....."Are there any special regulation areas on this?" I answer "no" and they are flabbergasted.

I am not out to say the littering is because of bait guys ( it is, I do a stream clean up every year with the Pohopoco rod and gun club. I witness the garbage collected) I am not saying the bait anglers are killing the small wild browns because the hooks are being swallowed, they rip them out and toss them back belly up and bleeding ( they are, I have witnessed it, and received reports from friends that are ethicle bait anglers), but we need an artificial lure section. It only takes a few idiots with bait to give the non idiot bait guys a bad name, and those guys are sick of it, and are supportive of what we are trying to do. When you begin to see a certain ethnicity pull up and 5 guys with deep sea poles get out with salmon nets, you know something has got to change. Lastly, I would even begin to hope the pfbc stops stocking with adult trout.

So Mike this might not have fully made sense ( its 12:15 and I am typing on my phone) but basically I am very passionate about this stream and I and others have begun to see its demise. It needs further protection. O, and don't even get me started on the Hydroelectric plant.

P.s. I hope a few other known anglers on here back me up with their first hand reports.

Shane

Posted on: 2012/8/14 0:18

Edited by SBecker on 2012/8/14 0:35:30
Edited by SBecker on 2012/8/14 0:56:36
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Re: PFBC Commissioners and Tailwater Wild Trout-Article

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Mike

To back up what SBecker has said....he is pretty much right on the money. This is what I think this little stream needs to be a very productive wild trout fishery...

1) Maintaining consistent release temperatures during the months of June/July & August. Currently the Corps uses the Ch 93 Temp criteria. At those temps, the are only "protective" and do not enhance or benefit wild trout populations through out the entire lenth of the Po. In addition, maintaining cooler temps during those months will provide a significant thermal refuge downstream in the Lehigh River.

2) Discuss better flows and releases with the Corps. If possible, try to increase minimum releases (currently 50 cfs). Water Quality is a purpose of this project and could be used to do this. In addition, reduction of large flood releases would be beneficial to streamside vegitation and stream banks.

3) Perform in-stream habitat improvement projects in areas with poor habitat.

4) Designate C&R ALO regulations to protect this wild trout fishery and the Lehigh's wild & stocked trout that migrate to the stream for thermal protection

5) Parryville dam - I now SBecker says the dam can't be removed. I think and know removing the dam would be the most beneficial. A larger collective group (PFBC included) and a better engineered solution should be provided to the owner that will still allow for maintaining the source of water. This will take more effecient and better negotiations with the owner.

6) At present, the PFBC needs to be Policing the lower thermal refuge area below the Parryville dam. Until the dam can be removed or it is proven the fish ladder is an affective device and provides fish movements, the area below the Parryville dam should be CLOSED to fishing during the months of July & August.


Posted on: 2012/8/14 9:18


Re: PFBC Commissioners and Tailwater Wild Trout-Article

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^^^^^wholeheartedly agree!^^^^^^^^^

Posted on: 2012/8/14 9:31
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Re: PFBC Commissioners and Tailwater Wild Trout-Article

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Mike, everything that SBecker and LehighRegular have stated is quite true regarding the Pohopoco (and the Lehigh River.) In November 2010 I moved to this area in large part because I wanted to be closer to the Lehigh and Po. I hope the PFBC takes a stronger look at helping protect AND enhance the trout fishery in these two streams. I'm currently finishing out my final term as Forks of the Delaware chapter president and hope to get more involved in my new "home waters." However, when a concerned angler can't even get a requested call back from the county WCO it's discouraging, I know these guys are busy but a simple call back goes a long way. I know if it were in Northampton County that angler would've definitely been called back.

Posted on: 2012/8/14 14:45

Edited by RyanR on 2012/8/14 15:00:58
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Re: PFBC Commissioners and Tailwater Wild Trout-Article

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2006/9/18 8:28
From Attitudinally, one mile south of Lake LeBoeuf
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Not to be a grump, but I would be absolutely and completely opposed to any initiative to convert the Allegheny below Kinzua in this way.

To the point where I would probably contribute financially to any viable group opposed to the change or even perhaps sign up to assert legal standing in any action aimed at stopping any such change from taking place.

The river is already a seasonal high quality trout fishery all the way down to Oleopolis. I don't think any additional changes are either wise or warranted.

If we want to do something with the dam that would be good for the river, we should take it out and return to the river to its historic flow and thermal regimes.

So, I guess I'm a grump....:)

Happily, no action of this sort has been proposed for the Allegheny by the Commission. And I think that's a good thing.

Posted on: 2012/8/14 18:17


Re: PFBC Commissioners and Tailwater Wild Trout-Article

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I woke up this morning and felt I should attempt to edit the intemperate, hair-on-fire tone of my previous post. But I see now that the edit function evidently disappears after the post has been up for a while.

That being the case, the best I can do is to disavow the 2nd paragraph. I'm too old to get that excited about much of anything...:)

I'm still agin' the notion of turning the Allegheny into a tailwater though...

Posted on: 2012/8/15 9:48


Re: PFBC Commissioners and Tailwater Wild Trout-Article
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We have to tolerate impoundments because a larger segment of the populace enjoys boating more than a pristine free-flowing trout stream or river. We have plenty of places to flyfish-- can't we sacrifice a few streams to lake anglers and, more importantly, on the large reservoirs, to recreational boaters?

Posted on: 2012/8/15 9:58
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Re: PFBC Commissioners and Tailwater Wild Trout-Article

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Quote:

JackM wrote:
We have to tolerate impoundments because a larger segment of the populace enjoys boating more than a pristine free-flowing trout stream or river. We have plenty of places to flyfish-- can't we sacrifice a few streams to lake anglers and, more importantly, on the large reservoirs, to recreational boaters?


Just wondering, but where is anyone calling for getting rid of reservoirs or dams that create lakes and reservoirs? Or am I just not following what you are asking?

Posted on: 2012/8/15 10:04
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Re: PFBC Commissioners and Tailwater Wild Trout-Article

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From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
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^Was wondering the same thing.

The discussion was over working with authorities to have some say in the outflow cycles from dam, hence enhancing or in some cases, creating, tailwater fisheries. Higher and more consistent summertime bottom release flows for the purpose of benefitting a trout fishery.

The trade off is generally the degree of flood control capability of the dam. In any dam, total water in = total water out over the course of a year, you can't violate that, obviously. The question is timing.

To get healthier, steadier summer flows, then you have to have lower spring flows. And that means keeping a fuller pool during the flood season, lowering the dam's flood control capability.

Posted on: 2012/8/15 10:44


Re: PFBC Commissioners and Tailwater Wild Trout-Article

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Quote:
We have to tolerate impoundments because a larger segment of the populace enjoys boating more than a pristine free-flowing trout stream or river. We have plenty of places to flyfish-- can't we sacrifice a few streams to lake anglers and, more importantly, on the large reservoirs, to recreational boaters?


Jack

Its not about sacrificing lakes for lake anglers/boaters. Nobody said that was going to be done. Its about using what "we have" and provide a better resource.

Yes, we have plenty of places to fish in PA. But how many great tailwater fisheries do we have in PA? A fishery that is considered "blue ribbon" quality? Ones that harbor high populations of trout (ie - Bighorn in MT = 7,000 fish / mile Green River = 10,000 fish /mile) and a good portion of which grow to be considered "large trout? A fishery that is attractive to many trout enthusiasts from all over the counrty? Maybe the Upper D....but that is it. Pa's fisheries are mediocre at best when considering the numbers of trout per mile and the numbers of large, wild trout that most anglers enjoy catching.

A lot of our impoundments already have the infrastructure to create such a fishery, its just a matter of better management of the water.

Jack.....have you ever fished over 7000 fish per mile? Try it, if you haven't.

Posted on: 2012/8/15 10:46



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