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Re: Pa. wild trout creel survey report and some comments

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2006/11/10 8:32
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Actually, we did check into this as you will now probably recall. we found more larger fish later in the season than we found before opening day at the wild trout electrofishing sites.

As for those "orange" streams, if they are the ones that I am thinking of, they have much better large fish habitat than many northcentral brookie streams, they most likely have a much better food supply throughout the year (terrestrials in high numbers due to the surrounding vegetation), and more constant temps due to high input of groundwater, much like limestoners in this regard. Recent research in this regard points to April and May being the prime growing months for Appalachian brook trout. Throughout the rest of the year there is only enough food for maintenance, and little if any for growth.

Posted on: 2007/3/21 20:23


Re: Pa. wild trout creel survey report and some comments

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2007/2/20 0:36
From Barto PA
Posts: 102
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All I know about the subject is what I see with my own two eyes. I do, however spend at least 100 days a year fishing wild Brown trout streams in SE PA. One of my favorites flows right through my property. Up until two years ago, on most days I could expect to catch 20 to 30 fisn in several hours of fly fishing. Many of these fish were in the 11-12 in. range and it was not unusual to catch one or two a day 14 in. with an occasional fish exceeding 15. Two years ago two bait fishermen found out about the stream and fished it nearly every day for several weeks keeping their limits of the LARGEST fish almost every time they went. For the rest of that year I did not catch ANY trout over about 10 in. and the numbers you could catch in a day dwindled to maybe 5 or 6, most of which were in the 6 to 7 in. class. Last year thanks to the flood washing many trout downstream from the upstream posted areas, the fishing was a little better and I caught several fish in the 12 in. class. But that was out of maybe 10 trips where I used to catch that many in a day. God only knows how long it takes a wild Brown to reach 12 in. in one of these small streams but it is my guess that these two guys destroyed in several weeks, and all legally I might add,what it took many years to produce. I don't know if the fishing will ever be the same in this stream again. One can only hope.

Posted on: 2007/3/22 3:17


Re: Pa. wild trout creel survey report and some comments

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2006/9/14 10:34
From Southeast PA
Posts: 521
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Excellent illustration of the issue, RRR. Unfortunately you don't have a statistically valid study to prove your hypothesis.

But you know, the large majority of wild trout C&R fishermen shouldn't be selfish and prevent those 2 guys from cleaning out the stream, because that's what they like to do.

I often wonder what would happen to Valley Creek if harvest was allowed. Despite all the studies and expert analysis by the PFBC professionals, I just find it impossible to believe that the fishing would be half as good (not to mention even 10% as good) as it is now. It just doesn't make sense.

Posted on: 2007/3/22 9:06


Re: Pa. wild trout creel survey report and some comments

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2006/12/13 9:28
From Other side of the tracks
Posts: 17590
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Quote:

Mike wrote:
Lehigh Regular,

Wild brook trout 9 inches long and longer represent 1.5% of Pa.'s wild brook trout population. Why would you expect the average wild brook trout harvested to be much larger than 8 inches? The majority of brook trout harvest came from small streams less than 6 m. wide and brook trout in Pa. are largely, but not entirely, relegated to the upper segments and higher elevation segments of streams. Habitat for large fish is often limiting in these areas and in many streams a 9 inch fish is likely at the end of its natural life.



This may be true, but it is still a bunch of crap, especially in NWPA. the only reason brook trout are relegated to streams less than 6m is because you guys stock EVERY stream larger than that in NWPA that will hold any trout. and you guys even stock some smaller than that if it has road access.

Here's the deal. PF&BC policy is to not stock Class A streams. Just how many streams are there in NWPA that are larger than 6 meters wide, and are class A for Brook Trout? Can you say Zero?

You guys are so worried about fishing opportunities across the whole state, but only when it serves your agenda (stock more streams means more revenue). the truth is, the best streams in NWPA are Class B and C. In order to give equal opportunities, the PF&BC should stop stocking a couple of those, and you will see lots of brook trout over 8 inches. Tom's Run in Cook Forest was that way before you started stocking it, and it was probably a recovering class D at the time. Not only that, you would have to put a few knots in your tape for that one to measure out to 6 meters on average. I catch lots of 8 inch brook trout in streams that I can step over, once I get a fair distance from any road access. Near the roads, they are cropped to just under 7. that my friend is what we have to settle for in NWPA if we want quality wild trout fishing outside of a couple of special regs areas. Personally, I don't view those as quality. What, with all the pressure, and the stupid signs screwing up the view...

OK, I'm relaxed now. I do think the PF&BC does a pretty decent job trying to please everyone. But my personal opinion is that the fishing would be a whole lot better if you guys cut way back on the number of streams you stock. ... and get rid of the stupid signs, or at least limit them to half the number of trees you put them on now. they are screwing up the scenery. It would certainly mean less revenue, but the way it is now, most of my friends gave up buying trout stamps a long time ago. I know if you did, I'd go back to buying a PA license every year and spend more money there (PA native, but currently a non-resident).

Posted on: 2007/3/22 10:56


Re: Pa. wild trout creel survey report and some comments

Joined:
2006/10/26 23:01
From Ohio
Posts: 657
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A contrarian view.....

I've been coming to PA about 5 years now and love the fishing.

When I come alone or with fly-fishing friends to PA (75% of my fishing), I'm exclusively C and R, and prefer wild fish in a wilderness setting so I/we hit smaller creeks that usually require some hiking.

When my wife comes with me, she, too practices C and R, and fly-fishes but enjoys catching lots of big trout. So we hit some stocked DHALO or FFO water.

When I take begginers or go on my anual trip with my inlaws, they usually want some meat. So I take them to some stocked water, give them an ultralight with a spincast reel and a panther martin, and play stand here, cast there. We don't keep more than three and don't keep anything under 12" and cook them up that day. And having stocked fish that will probably die during the summer heat if they don't end up in my frying pan, allows me to do this guilt free.

You may think ill of me, but I don't think I'm all bad, especially considering I grew up gear fishing all summer in Port Clinton, OH where 50 perch and 6 walleye creels were the norm.

Again, I love PA fishing as it is......

Maybe thats because I don't know how it once was....

Maybe its because I realize how good PA fisherman have it compared to other states.....

Gotta go catch some STOCKED steelhead this evening, later all....

Posted on: 2007/3/22 16:06


Re: Pa. wild trout creel survey report and some comments

Joined:
2006/11/2 8:50
Posts: 5777
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Quote:

Mike wrote:
Actually, we did check into this as you will now probably recall. we found more larger fish later in the season than we found before opening day at the wild trout electrofishing sites.


Mike, what was your explanation for this? Just growth of the fish? Or movement of the fish?

Posted on: 2007/3/22 17:17


Re: Pa. wild trout creel survey report and some comments

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2006/11/2 8:50
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This study did not check into, or even mention, the degree of harvest of wild trout that takes place on STOCKED wild trout streams. Will that be studied in the future?

Posted on: 2007/3/22 17:26


Re: Pa. wild trout creel survey report and some comments

Joined:
2006/9/14 10:34
From Southeast PA
Posts: 521
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Quote:

OhioOutdoorsman wrote:
....When I take begginers or go on my anual trip with my inlaws, they usually want some meat. So I take them to some stocked water, give them an ultralight with a spincast reel and a panther martin, and play stand here, cast there. We don't keep more than three and don't keep anything under 12" and cook them up that day. And having stocked fish that will probably die during the summer heat if they don't end up in my frying pan, allows me to do this guilt free.

You may think ill of me, but I don't think I'm all bad, especially considering I grew up gear fishing all summer in Port Clinton, OH where 50 perch and 6 walleye creels were the norm.

Ohio, I don't think anyone here would have any problem whatsoever with you harvesting stocked trout. That's what they're for, especially in streams where very few can survive the summer. Personally, I like the fact that there are a lot of people who do C&R stocked trout because there will be more for sport fishing longer into the season, but I certainly don't begrudge those who harvest within the law.

Posted on: 2007/3/22 18:44


Re: Pa. wild trout creel survey report and some comments

Joined:
2006/12/13 9:28
From Other side of the tracks
Posts: 17590
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Quote:



You may think ill of me, but I don't think I'm all bad, especially considering I grew up gear fishing all summer in Port Clinton, OH where 50 perch and 6 walleye creels were the norm.



Ohio, The only reason any of us would think ill of you is you are from Ohio. Actually, "ill" isn't the right word either. It's more like ... we feel sorry for you.

P.S. I live in Ohio too, but am not from there. Now excuse me, its that time of the morning when I take the browns to the superbowl.

Posted on: 2007/3/23 8:02


Re: Pa. wild trout creel survey report and some comments

Joined:
2006/10/26 23:01
From Ohio
Posts: 657
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Quote:
P.S. I live in Ohio too, but am not from there. Now excuse me, its that time of the morning when I take the browns to the superbowl.


Now that is funny. I'll think of that the next time I'm at Browns stadium standing in the rain with a half worn off beer buzz....

Posted on: 2007/3/23 10:50



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