Opening day angler counts

[Mike]

Opening day angler counts at 8AM and 9:30 AM will occur statewide again this year along streams from selected stocked trout stream classifications (categories). For instance, Fisheries Management Area 6 staff is looking at four width class 3 (4-10 meters wide on average) suburban streams in Lancaster, Lebanon, and Berks Counties. Three will be suburban streams that have human population densities that are close to crossing into the "urban" categories. They will also be looking at a mid-range human population density suburban stream in Lancaster Co or two rural streams in York Co. Other staff will be assisting with some counts in Area 6 portions of Schuylkill and York Counties. This is just an example of what will be occurring statewide on the two opening days. Such counts are important in managing the individual streams as well as in establishing stocking rates and frequencies for the various stream classifications or categories. This work has been going on for a number of years, but has a new sense of urgency given the 1) the increased emphasis on a more efficient stocking program by the present Commissioners and 2) the potential closure of two hatcheries after 2015.

 

[Chaz]

What? no wild trout streams!

 

[pcray1231]

I don't like the trend that puts us on. Just my opinion.

You'll discover places that get packed, and places not so crowded. Then you'll adjust stocking numbers, and stock the packed places more, and the uncrowded places less. Which of course results in less people fishing the uncrowded waters, and more trying to stack into the already packed places.

Taken to the extreme, you end up with small areas that get loaded with fish and shoulder to shoulder fishing. Just a circus. Not exactly a good "family" atmosphere, nor is it good for getting future fishermen into the sport.

IMO, the goal should be to spread out the fish and the fishermen, and to highlight the areas which are underutilized.

 

[McSneek]

Want to see a circus Saturday morning. Check out the stocking points on "suburban streams in Lancaster" Why anyone thinks this is a legitimate fishing experience is beyond my comprehension. If you're going to stock fish at least put them in somehting better than a farm ditch.

 

[Mike]

McSneek: Which stream that is not stocked in Lancaster Co and also meets other criteria for stocking such as good parking, low posting, etc is "better than a farm ditch?" If you wish to call out the management of stocked trout fisheries in Lancaster Co, then please provide viable solutions. Frankly, if the fish are well utilized and the fish "reside" well, I don't have any problem with stocking "farm ditches" for a put and take fishery, especially if they are close to home for large numbers of families or kids, eg. Meetinghouse Run.

 

[Mike]

pcray: "Packed" streams don't necessarily get stocked more, at least not preseason, but inseason stockings might get pushed forward to an earlier date in the future. Additionally, some of the "uncrowded" waters may be overstocked and in the worst cases no people show up to fish on opening morning by 8AM. Furthermore, there may be too many stocked streams within a short distance of each other for the needs of the number of people who utilize those streams. Among those streams may be one that receives very little use, has a decent wild trout population, or has a tradition of posting problems, begging the question: does such a stream even need to be stocked? Or, among those close together streams may be a stream that receives moderate pressure on the preseason fish but based on that does not need an inseason stocking. Guessing where this might lead could be an effort in futility as there are many variables.

 

[pcray1231]

Mike, that's true, and I understand some of the issues. Merely stating that if less people show up to fish a spot at 8 a.m. on opening morning, that's not a bad thing, so long as they're still fishing somewhere.

Summed up, my goal wouldn't be to put the most fish where the most people fish. The goal is get people to fish elsewhere, spread em out. If you got a lot of streams in a small area, that's a GOOD thing. If you have X number of fish for that area, spread em out evenly. Don't try to concentrate them to put more people over them.

It's better for a father and a son to fish more lightly stocked places alone than it is to fish heavily stocked places in a crowd.

For instance, you mentioned residency. Generally, I think it's a BAD thing, not a good thing. There's limits, obviously, it doesn't do anybody any good if they go into a posted stretch, or go 50 miles to where nobody would even dream of fishing for them. But I would much rather they spread out evenly over a few miles rather than stay within 50 yards of where they were dumped. I see too often the bridge pools are stacked with fish, and fishermen, while miles of good water farther from the roads go unused. That's a waste, IMO, even if those people stacked there can catch a higher % of them. Especially for the kids, it teaches them the wrong lessons about what outdoors sports are all about.

The goal isn't to have the the highest % of stocked fish get caught. It's to provide the most miles of "fishable" water, with fishable being defined as having some reasonable chance of success.

 

[McSneek]

Mike - I guess what I'm saying is that maybe some of these streams shouldn't even be stocked. You and I probably define "utilized" differently. I understand that for you it is about putting the fish somewhere that they can easily be caught thus creating satisfied anglers who will conitnue to purchase licenses and trout stamps.

pcray's comment that the current stocking practice teaches the wrong lessons about what outdoor sports are all about is sort of the the point I'm trying to make when I see a pile of people fishing the Little Conestoga within walking distance of Park City mall.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

I'm fishing a small trib to an ATW on Saturday afternoon. I'll park at a popular northern Lanc. stocking point and walk up the trib. I can't wait to see the circus!!!!! It's been years and years since I went out on opening day.

 

[Mike]

Little Conestoga is not a bad as some and there are a lot of people living close to the stream. I would add that unlike a lot of Lanc Co stocked streams, this one has limestone springs that allow it to hold fish into the summer.

 

[Mike]

pcray: A stream with good residency is an ideal one to float stock, meeting both your and my desires. The problem is that there are limited numbers of anglers willing to build float stocking boxes, tubs, or barrels and participate in the stockings. Anglers who desire to have the fish spread to a greater extent would benefit others and themselves by considering float stocking. I've even seen rubber rafts partially filled with water used for float stocking.

 

[geebee]

Mike, this probably a dumb question, but from a fisheries management and customer experience point of view, wouldn't it be better to 'sweep' the fish stocked at easily accessible bridge holes out into the main stream and have them spread out a little, giving anglers more elbow room and making them a little harder to hammer ?

by sweep i mean some kind of net or boom ( or even a really big stick or paddle) to scare them downstream out of the hole ?

I do appreciate that you are trying to cater for all btw.

Mark.

 

[pcray1231]

Well, I think in many stocking situations, guys do carry buckets a short distance. A hole or two up or down. Not sure "sweeping" could be any more effective than that.

I also get a little angry sometimes that the drivers often want to stock more fish in fewer places. Many of the harder places to get to get skipped unless someone demands that they go there. But I highly doubt this is any sort of management decision. And more a case where the driver has to put X number of fish in a stretch, it's a job to him, and he's in a rush, so it's quicker and easier to put a few extra buckets in this spot and skip that next spot.

 

[StarvinMarvin]

mike, how does one go about making arrangements to stock a stream with PFBC cause ill do a ton that are listed in my neck of the woods that dont get done

 

[Mike]

Sweeping would be unnecessary. They soon move out from shore on their own.

Marvin, contact your regional PFBC law enforcement office with your offer.

 

[OldLefty]

My understanding is that the WCO doesn't want folks to take the time to walk buckets of trout up or down the stream from where the truck stops. The longer it takes to put those trout in the stream the more it impacts on driver time.

I would really like to see more float stocking. This allows those assisting with the stocking to spread the trout out and gives someone who doesn't want to fish with the crowds some hope of fishing over fish at points other than where the truck stops.

 

[Fishidiot]

OldLefty wrote:
I would really like to see more float stocking. This allows those assisting with the stocking to spread the trout out and gives someone who doesn't want to fish with the crowds some hope of fishing over fish at points other than where the truck stops.

I agree. Around here, however, it can be difficult sometimes to find volunteers to do the actual float stocking.

 

[geebee]

i would have thought a discount on the fishing licence might encourage that...

 

[PennypackFlyer]

Maybe they could have sent us a letter inviting us to participate.

 

[salmonoid]

geebee wrote:
i would have thought a discount on the fishing licence might encourage that...

If you need a discount on what is already a bargain, to help stock, you might be into fishing for the wrong reasons... Just sayin'

McSneek - as a lifelong (except for college) Lancaster County resident, I definitely sympathize with your farm ditch comment. Growing up, my Opening Day stream was Pequea Creek in eastern Lancaster County. It is definitely an impaired farm ditch there, but it started me down the road of trout fishing (along with a small dose of "natives" in Lycoming County). I just got done walking some stretches of Big Beaver Creek, also, undoubtedly a farm ditch. I hope to put my kids on some fish and give them an enjoyable experience reeling them in. That is all. I'm not dreaming of any of the stream becoming trout meccas. Unfortunately, for most stocked streams in Lancaster County, you simply need to lower your expectations, and then your expectations will be met Nothing wrong with folks near Park City crowding a stream that hasn't supported wild trout for a very long time, and getting a meal from it..

The float stocking aspect has been hit or miss, in my experience. I was majorly bummed a number of years ago when I was with a group that offered to float stock and the offer was rejected. On the other hand, I have helped float stock sections of Conowingo and Big Beaver already. Unfortunately, my mindset of wanting to walk a two mile stretch of stream and catch one or two fish in each hole is at odds with what I perceive to be the general stocked angling public's mindset, which is one of wanting to see buckets of trout in each hole, along with some Lightnin' (TM) Trout. And that's why I'm quite content to take my kids out in search of densely stocked streams for one day, and spend the majority of the rest of my days on wild waters.