I have always assumed that ATW and downstream portions of the stream are not fishable from March 1 until the opening day; however, after searching for an answer I found that:

1. ATW and the downstream portions of the stream are opened to fishing during the extended season.

2. "These waters" are closed from March 1 until opening day.

My question is what is meant by "These waters"? Are streams with downstream ATW limits listed completely closed downstream? Or are the stretches downstream only closed to harvest during this time?

I want to C&R fish a class A that is downstream from the ATW listed limit. I thought that this was off limits; however, I have not found anything that specifically says that the waters downstream of ATW boundaries are closed to fishing during this time. All I can find is that they are open to harvest during the extended season. There is an assumption that they might be closed. Are these sections included in "these waters"? This seems quite vague in the regulatioins.

Any thoughts on whether it might actually be legal to C&R in class A that is downstream of ATW during the closed season?

There are certain places in the state designated as "extended season"

One place by me is a lake in a public park. It is open and stocked in February for ice fishing. So the "extended" season allows fishing up to the end of March, and then is closed from April 1st till opening day.


Now there are sections of stream that flow in and out of the lake that are ATW, but NOT labled "extended season" so they are closed at the end of February like all other ATW's.


I think that should answer your question.

Call the geniuses at PFBC 3 times and you will get 3 different answers.

Fish first, ask questions later.

crs,
Yep, we've gone round and round on this issue here on the PAFF boards for as long as I can remember. The regs are vague.

If you know a section of stream is Class A then you can fish it C&R all year. Just make sure that you know the boundaries so that you don't blunder into the ATW section. If you know you're in the Class A section you're fine. Be careful not to walk along the ATW section to get to the Class A as you'll be in violation. Forget about the "downstream areas" nonsense.

Again, if you're in a Class A section your fine.

um, uh...if a class A section is downstream of an ATW it is closed to fishing during March. Bank on it.

Unless it is in a downstream county where no part of the creek is listed as an ATW in that county.

However...if a Class A section of stream is UPSTREAM of an ATW it is OK to fish it on a catch and immediate release basis during March.

I am going to dissect this to make it perfectly clear.....

Quote:

These waters indicate ATW's and their downstream areas.


Quote: Completely closed with in the County where the ATW is labeled.

Quote:

It is off limits unless it is within a neighboring county where no part of that stream is an ATW.

Quote:

Only ATW's are open to harvest during the extended season.

Quote:

Again, if the stream section is downstream of an ATW section within the county where the stream is contains an ATW it is closed during March.

Any thoughts on whether it might actually be legal to C&R in class A that is downstream of ATW during the closed season?[/quote]

It is illegal if the Class A is within the same county where the ATW is on that stream.

Maurice,
Somebody better tell all the bass fishermen on the big rivers they're fishing illegally because they're in a "downstream area" of an ATW in the same county.

Downstream areas does not include receiving bodies of water, only the ATW creek. As in when the ATW has a lower limit.

Maurice,
What about impoundments? By the standards you printed above, anybody fishing Blue Marsh Lake in March is fishing illegally because they're "downstream" of a stocked section of the same body of water (Tulpehocken) in the same county (Berks)? I can think of many other examples demonstrating the absurdity of the "downstream areas" notion.
Where does it end (besides county line)?

The original poster asked if he could fish a Class A section on a catch and release basis. I think he can.....regardless of county lines or ATWs up or downstream. Perhaps there's a WCO who might interpret the regs as you've posted them and fine the OP for fishing this this Class A section but I think the WCO would have a hard time making the charge stick.

Class A streams are open to fishing year-round. Check the "County Guide" map on the PFBC map. The ATWs (in brown) are not open from March 1st until opening day. The SR areas (in blue) and the Class As (in Green) are open. There are also some ATWs open to year-round fishing (brown with black outline)

Click on link and zoom into your area: http://www.fish.state.pa.us/county.htm

Here is the reg as posted on the FBC site:


It is legal* to fish for trout in Class A trout streams year-round, with no kill beginning the day after Labor Day through the opening day of trout season the following year. The same holds true for wilderness trout streams. Of course, all other fishing regulations still apply.
Note that during the period after Labor Day through the following opening day of trout season, anglers must immediately release any trout they catch unharmed to the waters from which taken. Anglers also should check for special regulations applicable to particular waters.

The traditional trout season and creel limits are in place for "Approved Trout Waters," which basically means the water is stocked by the Commission or one of its Cooperative Nursery partners. To provide additional angling opportunities, there are a handful of approved trout waters that are open to year-round fishing.

Link to source: http://fishandboat.com/images/pages/qa/trout/year_round.htm

David,

typically Class A sections are upstream of the ATW's. Where they are downstream or below within the same county they are lumped into the same "ATW section" unless otherwise regulated.

Your lake and receiving river "gotcha" scenarios are invalid because the anglers are not targeting trout.

Its about targeting trout in the ATW and downstream areas.

I am only highlighting that a Class A bookended by ATW sections is within the ATW and closed. We have covered this before. In spite of what Tom quotes above.

Once a stream crosses county lines the same rules apply again.

My understanding is and has been as Maurice stated. But I remain convinced that this matter deserves clarification by the PFBC. It's rather poorly explained, and in many cases you can find competing official information. Such as Afish's posted quotes from the PFBC, which are contrary to the description of seasons on the website and in the book.

How are you supposed to follow the law when you can't figure it out? It's pretty bad when some of the most avid fishermen in the state can't figure it out.

The bottom line is that "Class A" is not a regulatory classification, i.e. it doesn't affect seasons or rules, anymore than being put on the "streams with natural reproduction" list changes the rules.

Simply check whether the stream itself is ATW. If not, you may fish.

If so, are there limits? If no, the whole stream is off limits within that county. If it flows into a new county, check the ATW list for that county, and start over.

If there are limits listed, then it is ok to fish ABOVE those limits but not below on the same stream.

At least until opening day, at which time EVERYTHING becomes open to fishing.

I agree this is another one of those gray areas...My understanding is in line with Maurice and pcray.

FI - To add a little clarification to your Tully/Blue Marsh example...it is my understanding that in those cases the lake itself is regulated as a separate entity than the stream. That is if the lake were to be regulated as ATW (thus no fishing in March) it would be listed on the ATW list. This leaves some room for debate I suppose as to where the lake and the stream start and stop, especially on the upstream side...again another gray area.

Similarly when an ATW enters a larger stream, the regs switch to that new, larger stream. Meaning if the larger stream is not designated as an ATW in that county, it's ok to fish the larger stream, but not the smaller tributary ATW. "Downstream" only follows the ATW as far as its mouth then you must look up the new larger stream to determine the regs.

The key phrase in the original post is "Extended Season". I see we've moved off of that topic on to the whole "what can I fish when ATW's are closed.


Just want to make sure the original question gets answered.

If anyone has anything different than my post on extended season ATW's then that would be great.

Extended season is from Labor Day to March 1. The open all year streams are open through March I think to the 31st. Make sure you know for sure which it is you are fishing. PFBC needs to reduce the number of regs.