N Br Muddy Ck, York Co, breaks "the rules": trout residency

[Mike]

Brown (primarily) and rainbow trout were stocked as the stream was chocolate colored and rising. At the time it was about 80% of the way to bank full and fast moving, but later appeared to have at some point gone over the banks. I think we've all heard from anglers some comments in those situations that the "fish will distribute themselves better" or on the negative side "they're all going to wash downstream" or "why do they stock under such conditions?" Also, as you'll recall, the larger statwide database clearly shows that RT stay put while residency of BT is significantly lower. This is not necessarily in all individual stream cases, but in the vast majority. In this case the electrofishing a week or so later revealed that the BT had stayed put (residency estimate of 100%), but the RT had moved substantially ( not resided well).

Before it is asked, some wild browns were also present at each site. The sampling sites were each within about a mile of Felton.

Remaining streams to electrofish as part of the stocked trout residency surveys in SE Pa are Pocopson Ck, Chester Co, E Br Codorus and Blymire Hollow Run, York Co. May also do a third site on Conowingo Ck, Lanc Co., as residency was highly variable between two sites and, therefore, averaged only 45%. Adding a third site may better focus on what is actually happening there. Some wild browns were present at the upper sampling site on Conowingo as well.

 

[troutwilleatflies]

In my 50+ years of fishing I always noticed that the RT is a traveler and the BT stayed close.Surprising to me that your surveys indicate the opposite.

 

[Fishidiot]

The exception that proves the rule I suppose.

 

[Fishidiot]

troutwilleatflies wrote:
In my 50+ years of fishing I always noticed that the RT is a traveler and the BT stayed close.Surprising to me that your surveys indicate the opposite.

Your view is certainly a widespread one here in the south central. Many clubs and individual fishermen around here want brown stocked instead of RT based on this (incorrect according to these studies) viewpoint.

 

[JackM]

As a skeptic, I wonder if you can actually account for all the contingencies that would effect trout migration, especially trout raised to adulthood in a raceway. These studies should be very detailed as to the variety of conditions, creek by creek, but also stocking-event by stocking-event.

 

[Maurice]

Jack,

We I may have shouted this over your head on a cott but I will say it again. Brown trout stick and rise in Muddy Creek. Brook trout run, leave, dissappear, no one knows where they go. Rainbows move miles and are great winter hitters there.

One year we stocked 5,000 and I caught a total of 4 that year. One where we did not stock them. One float barrel rolled over in a hole releasing all 150 trout Maybe a few remained. I called a guy that usually helps, a harvester that uses bait and he went the next day and couldn't find them....a total of 600 were released in that 1.5 mile stretch of the SB...and this is a guy you don't want to fish behind.

When I see his car at a parking spot, I move on. He stings a lot of trout. keeps a limit but catches dozens.

Anyway. Bows, meh, they move but you can find them....its the brookies tha tave me baffles in Muddy Creek.

Mikes findings are right in line with what we have been saying for years.....give us Brown trout.

 

[JackM]

Your cott rantings may apply to Muddy, but not to Dunbar or Laurel Hill. This was my point. I was just musing anyway. I am sure there are pattern that demonstrate some consistency, but I think that stream conditions may be more of a factor than species.

 

[Mike]

As I find individual streams where one species has superior residency performance vs another species, I adjust the preseason species mix accordingly. Otherwise, I generally rely on the statewide analysis...RT's reside best and grow well in the hatcheries. I then tend to stock a high percentage of RT preseason. Trying to determine why one performs better than another was in large part the focus of the original study that is available for review on the PFBC web page. I can add here that ST do not do well in rapidly flowing, relatively featureless streams or sections of streams with rapid, flume-like flow and few current breaks.

 

[salmonoid]

My experience has been that brook trout move miles and you will find them in log jams or in the smaller tributaries to larger streams. This experience is from about ten years fishing the same ANF stream on Opening Day. The PFBC no longer stocks ST pre-season on this particular stretch, but when they did, it was not uncommon to walk downstream a mile from the nearest stocking point, find a log jam, and then pull out 30 or 40 brookies, including some nice stocker pigs. Hurricanes wiped out the log jams and about the same time, the PFBC went to stocking just RT in that stream section pre-season. I do remember the one trib to be loaded with ST when they still stocked them pre-season. On Opening Day, I would typically fish for stocked fish in the morning and then some smaller tribs in the afternoon. On the afternoon small trib, it looked like someone had dumped two buckets of ST in the stream, but I'm fairly certain they migrated up out of the main stream pre-season. The RT are good fighters, but I miss the days when everyone would pound the stream Opening Day and then my brother and I would find the log jams and pull out dozens that other anglers had walked right by.

 

[geebee]

I understood that trout that completely disappear are backing out of water where the PH is too low (below 4.5). i've seen it on stocked streams too- on the Swift river in MA, which is a 110ft tailwater at a steady 55 so they're not backing out due to water temps.

i always thought that BT were structure huggers and stayed put, whereas RT were flow holders and so moved up and down streams based on stream levels - as levels drop they move into deeper flows, as streams rise they move into shallow flows. which to me is logical as there's is a reward to energy ratio for RT.

In lakes and ponds BT stick to structure and RT are cruisers.

just my 02.

 

[Mike]

Low pH is only one factor causing trout residency problems. That is mainly a problem in the NE and NC part of the state, although not exclusively a problem there. Also, there are specific sub-subbasins where pH is the primary problem. The one near Clearfield comes immediately to mind.

 

[LongWader]

I find some nice holdover stocked BT in small protected pocket holes far away from the prime holding areas where you would typically find the RT and BT. I have also flushed them out from under large rocks and logs by accident. Usually a bad step on my part when I am getting tired and clumsy. I think it may be a competition thing and they try to avoid the more aggressive BT and Rt. The seem to use out of the way areas with good cover. I rarely see them until they move from their cover position to take a fly.

 

[geebee]

LongWader wrote:
I find some nice holdover stocked BT in small protected pocket holes far away from the prime holding areas where you would typically find the RT and BT. I have also flushed them out from under large rocks and logs by accident. Usually a bad step on my part when I am getting tired and clumsy. I think it may be a competition thing and they try to avoid the more aggressive BT and Rt. The seem to use out of the way areas with good cover. I rarely see them until they move from their cover position to take a fly.

i've seen that on a number of rivers.

i think the Beta fish back off to a quiet spot until they grow large enough to displace either smaller or less aggressive BT.

there are only a limited number of lies in most streams and the BT hold according to their size and aggression. the higher the fish population the more poorer lies will get utilised.

the irony is that sometimes these Beta browns grow to behemoth proportions where they are, often holding in spots untouchable by anglers or herons, mink etc.

Brown trout can live for up to 14 years, these hogs are largely nocturnal and sit in stasis during the day - some of which will actually park their tails in holes, pipes under overhangs etc.

I saw some footage of a spring creek brown of around 8lbs that would wiggle into a closed hatch gate and sit there with its tail and half its body in a gap in the gate.

these are often kyped males that don't spawn for some reason i believe...