Maps with access points?

[izzitart]

Are there maps with river access points. My time is so limited and I spend so much time driving around trying to avoid private property, by the time I get on the creek I've got to head back home.Maps?

 

[Fishidiot]

Try the link in the upper right corner of this page: "Pennsylvania Trout Streams." These are mostly well known waters and many of the bridges have pull offs where you can park. In the end, you really have to do some exploring to find these access spots. If this is genuinely a problem, visit the streams on public land in state parks or state forests. Access areas are usually much more obvious on public land and you can cross fields and woods to get to the water.

 

[Aducker]

I have the printed maps from Gogal Publishing. I like them. They don't show exact access points but they show the roads.
They are actually a site sponsor also.
Here is a link: http://gogalpublishing.com/home/PA_Fish_Maps.html

 

[phiendWMD]

I've got a question that sort of ties in with this. Once I've located a public access point and am actually in the water, can I cross through private property if I stay in the water? I know you can't cross posted property to access the water, but from what I've read it seems you are ok once you are on in the stream. Is this correct?

 

[PatrickC]

The fly shops close to where you fish often have access maps for the local streams as well.

 

[UFMGuy]

If you have a smartphone or Garmin, the GPS Fishing Guide advertised on this site is good as well. Many of the destinations including all the major rivers listings take you right to access points.

The challenge with finding printed maps at the detail you want is scale. A big map that covers lots of area can't show the detail of specific points on the stream. The fly shop idea is good as well since they make them specific to their area.

 

[pcray1231]

I've got a question that sort of ties in with this. Once I've located a public access point and am actually in the water, can I cross through private property if I stay in the water? I know you can't cross posted property to access the water, but from what I've read it seems you are ok once you are on in the stream. Is this correct?

It depends whether the water is navigable or not. If navigable, staying in the water is ok. If non-navigable, the stream is private property, and keeping your feet wet does nothing.

Determining whether it's navigable is no easy task. Generally speaking, you can safely assume the following are navigable:

Ohio, Allegheny, Monongahala, Yough, Kiskiminetas, Susquehanna (plus E and W branches), Juniata, Little Juniata, Lehigh, Schulykill, Delaware. I could be missing one or two.

But then you have THIS list. This is what the DCNR holds to be navigable. But note that the DCNR has no legal say, and a court must decide what is navigable and what is not. many of these have not yet been tested in court. And many are posted. If caught, you could be charged with trespassing. At which point, you could fight it on grounds of navigability. DCNR should side with you, but it's up to a court to decide who's right. If you lose, you pay the trespassing fee plus court costs. If you win, the rest of us will be grateful for the risk you took in proving navigability.

 

[tomitrout]

pcray, I think you're mistaken about the nature of the list you linked....looks to me that that is simply a compiled list of streams that flow on public land; thru State Forests, Parks, SGL's, etc....and even at that, it is incomplete since there's nothing listed to cover the area around the Cumberland Valley.


The Page 6 fine print:
"NOTE: The waterways identified herein as having publicly-owned streambeds have been compiled by the Commonwealth over time from various sources. Identification is based upon information believed to be reliable and persuasive evidence of such ownership. The identification of a waterway as having a publicly-owned streambeds herein is not intended to be a final determination that the waterway is navigable under state or federal law. Moreover, other waterways not identified herein may be navigable under state or federal law, in which case their streambeds would also be publicly-owned. The Commonwealth reserves the right to add or remove waterways identified as having publicly-owned streambeds as additional information becomes available."

 

[izzitart]

Thanks for all the replies! You guys are always so helpful. I'm going to track down a couple suggestions and get on out there today. Hopefully, the rain hasn't thwarted my plans.

 

[pcray1231]

tom, not true.

The list is primarily derived from PA state legislature declarations of public highways.

That said, the actual question of navigability is a federal one, not a state one. By current law, such a declaration does not prove that a stream is in fact navigable, i.e. the declaration carries no legal weight on it's own. And on the flip side, a declaration is not necessary for a stream to be, in fact, navigable. There could be streams which are not on this list which are navigable.

Hence the fine print you pointed out. Only a court can decide. Such a declaration by the PA legislature is merely a piece of evidence in favor of navigability. They were declared to be public highways, typically, to protect a commerce route. And the test for navigability is whether it can be a route for commerce....

The list was primarily compiled for gas drillers and mineral rights. If a stream is navigable, it's streambed is owned by the state, and ALWAYS WAS, from the beginning of the Commonwealth. Hence, it was NEVER legitimate private property, despite what any deeds say. And thus it's mineral rights could never have been legitimately separated from surface rights. Hence, the state also owns mineral rights.

 

[henrydavid]

You will find that printing your own maps and blowing up and printing sections of maps will help a great deal.

Bring up any section of map in your browser or PDF viewer, hit "shift/PrtSc" simultaneously, then open a photo editor like MS Paint and click "edit" then "paste". Then you can save and print the image with any notations you would like to add.

 

[tomitrout]

P, here is what you wrote:

But then you have THIS list. This is what the DCNR holds to be navigable.

That list has nothing to do with whether or not those streams are 'navigable waters', hence the fine print disclaimer at the bottom. DCNR makes no claim that those waters listed are navigable.

 

[pcray1231]

Tom, you are incorrect. This list is compiled from 3 separate lists.

1. Public highway list
2. Army Corps of Engineers list of navigable waters
3. Oberdorfer's List (compiled from research of commerce combined with court decisions)

But you were correct in pointing out the fine print. It is not a final determination of navigability. Focus on "final", not "navigability". The DCNR's position, if you want to call it that, is indeed that these waters are navigable, not merely that they have public streambeds. The disclaimer's purpose is to acknowledge that the DCNR does not have the FINAL say in the matter, only a court does. i.e. another entity could also claim ownership, and a court would have to decide who is right.