Live minnows vs. flies - can we hold a candle???

[wgmiller]

I was up in Cameron County with the family and relatives this weekend for opening day. Since I really got into fishing, this was my first opening day with such a hardcore group of folks, so all around it was a learning experience. I got very little fishing time in because a.) I slept in until 08:00 and b.) I'm in the running for "Father of the year award" and was in charge of our two-year old while my wife fished with our oldest daughter.

As I arrived at the cabin, I saw several "live wells" with aerators keeping the minnows alive. I thought to myself, "Well, my flies should be able to slay the fish as well".

My wife found a hole on the way into the fish nursery on Wykoff Run where she typically does well. She didn't have live minnows, but instead was using your typical trout bait (Powerbait, waxworms, etc.). She wasn't having any luck on that stuff and got moved in on by two youngsters using live minnows. Needless to say, they creeled their limited of meaty brookies from that hole in no time.

Frustrated, I told the Mrs. I'd head over and move in on them and yank some fish out. I tied on a #10 white bugger and sent it down the riffles time and again, but to no avail. I thought for sure these stockies would be on to a bugger danced through the riffles, but not so.

All weekend I heard success stories of guys "smashing" the trout with live minnows. In fact, my wife took my oldest daughter and other family relatives to the kids' fishery and smashed the brookies on them as well. They were the envy of every camo wearing young boy in that stretch as they reeled in fish after fish.

This morning I looked in my fly box and there they were, staring at me, my streamers (BND, Grey ghost, Mickey Finn, etc.). Why in god's name I didn't tie them on yesterday is beyond me. In retrospect, those would have been my only source of redemption, but there they sat, nice and dry in my fly box.

To sum up my ramblings, can us fly guys hold a candle to the bait guys who are nailing fish on live minnows? Are streamers the "go to" pattern? Although I'm new to fly fishing, I really felt that I had the "tools" in my pouch to make it happen, but lacked the experience to convert.

It was a beautiful weekend in northcentral PA!

Quehanna Highway Elk

 

[pcray1231]

In short, no, we can't. I too slayed fish on live minnies this weekend, farther west than you. I caught a few on egg imitations, and I'm sure I woulda caught a couple on streamers, but no way could I have matched what I did with live minnies.

That said, this was a situation with fresh stockies in a large infertile stream, yours was fresh stockies in a small infertile stream, not much difference. Every situation is different. There are indeed situations where I feel very confident I catch more on flies than I would with live minnies, or any other method for that matter.

What it comes down to is did you enjoy your day? If you get more satisfaction out of 1 fish than someone else does out of 15, did you not do better for yourself? Though my weekend was enjoyable and technically successful, it did remind me why I like fly fishing better. It was awfully mechanical and downright easy, if it weren't for good company I wouldn't have had that good of a time. It would get old real quick....

And very nice pictures by the way.

 

[pete41]

white marabou streamers with silver tinsel-about 1 1/4 inches would probably give the minnow boys a run for their money as there will always be some cannibalism in hatcheries but insect imitations are foreign to them at first,one would suspect..Natural color deer hair bugs fairly close clipped in 14 fished nymph style use to be a turn on with stockers -don't know if they still are.

 

[TroutBuster]

Hammered them on minnows. We probably landed at least 40 between three of us on opening day. Fly guys up and below us only caught a few a piece. Not sure if you can really beat the live bait on opening day. Possibly once the pressure gets to the fish, a smaller fly might all thats left they'll hit though...

 

[pete41]

you have elk in Pa.?
elk creek-okay

 

[pcray1231]

Yes there are elk in PA. And I've seen them on the stream he fished....

 

[tomgamber]

duh... http://www.visitpago.com/outdoors/elkherd.html

 

[pete41]

the only wild animal that ever chased me-a cow elk
my buddy had a banty rooster that had my number-lol

 

[wgmiller]

There were actually a couple of really nice bulls about 50 yards in back of the guy I took a picture of. Nice tall racks, stout looking. If you know where the Quehanna Boot Camp is, they were only a few miles down the road along the highway. First time I'd seen them that far east.

Back to the minnow topic, thanks for the feedback. I wasn't sure if I was expecting too much or not. I know that fly fishing can be a powerful tool, but just wasn't sure how it could compare to minnow fishing. Clearly the minnows were the bait of choice on opening day/weekend and couldn't be beat.

I did have a good time even though I didn't get to fish much. Next time I make it up I need to rise earlier and head to the hills for some natives. To be quite honest, since I C & R all the fish I land, opening day in many way is a moot point to me. I'll take the peace and quiet of fishing my C & R FFO streams any day of the week!

 

[Acristickid]

Yes, we can.

Especially when there is a hatch and it is way more fun.

"Nice bait bucket." You dont want to here that do you? hehe


I am beginning to wonder if some guys on here that don't flyfish.

 

[jaybo41]

It's going to be tough to top live bait in most circumstances but it can be done. My buddy and I once fished a stream in the ANF and had one particular hole to ourselves. Well after about 30 minutes of peace and quiet, a beat up old van pulls up and a modern day version of the Clampett's pops out. There were at least 5 of them and the proceeded to stand on the very bank that we were casting to and fish. Frustrated by this, I said to my buddy, look a Caddis. We proceeded to pick up so many fish we lost count within about an hour's time on those caddis.

Not that outfishing them was the point, or the number of fish we caught made the experience, but that sure was cool. Best part of it all was matching a hatch and having good success on dry flys. Casting that line, mending with the flow watching that gulp, and feeling the rod come alive. Hooking up with a fish on a fly rod is what you can't replicate with live bait. There's an art and a skill to it that I absolutely love.

 

[Fishidiot]

Pcray is right....The bottom line is Did you enjoy your day?

For the most part, when fishing over stockies early in the season a decent bait guy will almost always outfish a good FFer. There have been days when, like many of you, I've fished circles around bait guys but on opening day in particular it's a challenge. I started the opener this year on a favorite local ATW and, at the first pool where I started, I couldn't buy a fish on nymphs and streamers but the bait folks were gettin 'em - esp on minnies. Downstream I did better but fresh stockies really key on bait. By May/June a good FFer will stand a better shot at outfishing the bait guys. In the end though, it comes down to pcray's point.

 

[PennKev]

Whatever. Early season stocked trout are easy pickings. All you need to do is find 'em and get good drifts. Good fisherman will catch a lot of fish regardless of tackle and bait. When guys fishing minnows are tearing them up, everyone else usually is too. Stockies in an aggressive mood will hit anything that gets too close. Do minnows have their days? Yes, but I've caught so many trout on nymphs that I don't worry about the one or two times a year I wish I had some minnows to use. I'm not handicapped by choosing to fly fish, not for trout at least.

Kev

 

[flipnfly]

i think this is a valid arguement ive had really good fly days and really good minnow days yesterday was a good fly day we caught 48 between me and my brother we noticed some small blue quills in the air and some surface activity had a blast all day with them on bobs creek the first day i caught 30 myself plus the kids caught 20 each and mom and dad didt well everyone i know did well i agree with kev they will hit almost anyhting when a good angler is behind the tackle but all in all my expirences this year were about equal between flies and minnows

 

[JesseJamesJim]

From my experience, I've seen it both ways. We had a day on First Fork one year, where they just stocked that morning. My buddy and I went out with spinning tackle (minnows, worms, etc) and the fish wouldn't hit anything. I thought it was the shock of just being stocked. Then a tan caddis hatch started to come off. I seen two fish rise and told my buddy I'm heading back to the truck to get my fly tackle. He said go ahead, it's way too far of a walk. It was about 3/4 mile one way. So, when I returned, there was fish rising left and right. After landing 8 or so, I couldn't resist on taking turns and letting him have some enjoyment. I know a lot of guys would have said, told ya, should have went and got your rod, but he is my friend.

However, I've been fly fishing for 17 years and my brothers only bait fish. On average, they out fish me with live bait, unless a hatch is coming off. I also have never caught a 20+ fish on fly tackle in PA. I have caught a couple of these in Montana, but never in PA. My brothers and their friends have a ton on live bait.

Just my observation...

 

[FarmerDave]

All I can say is that I know I can catch more fish using live minnows than I can using streamers, any time of the year.

Sure a good fly angler using streamers can catch more trout than a poor bait guy using minnows, but apples to apples, there is no contest.

Anyone who would argue otherwise hasn't fished with live minnows.

I caught all my opening day trout on spinners, and actually did better than anyone around me with the exception of one bait guy but he caught most of his before I go there. I fished a lake for the first couple hours and didn't hit the creek until after 10:30. A lot of people got skunked where I was at. (several miles upstream of pcray). I know minnows would have worked better. Heck, the biggest trout i caught, i was jigging a spinner next to a brush pile. Minnow would have been perfect.

 

[FarmerDave]

disclaimer: I was only comparing streamers to minnows. I agree that some days you can do better with other flies than you can with minnows as several have said. But that wouldn't have been the case where i was at. Very few things coming off.

 

[MKern]

Whe I used to fish minnies it would be hit of miss if they worked, one year I could catch every fish in the hole, the next year nothing.

 

[gfen]

Anglers being equal....

One smells like a baitfish, moves like a baitfish, tastes like a baitfish because it is a baitfish.

The other one just presumes to be a baitfish, because no matter how accurate it may be, its not a baitfish.

I always assume that real bait will outfish any artifical lure, assuming the fish are interested in said bait type, because it is in fact the real thing.

 

[gulfgreyhound]

Salted shiners were deadly back in my day.Do people still use them?We used to tye a treble hook on a bout a foot of leader.Tye a loop in the other end and using a bait needle.open eye, thread the leader through the shiner. It was attached to the leader on your rod using a snap swivel.Cast down and across it was a producing rig.back in the day.