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Re: Little J No More
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2006/9/9 9:29
From Monessen, PA
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Don't be offended, but I don't think your reasons for enjoying hunting and fishing are all that different. It just so happens that a better rationalization can be devised for hunting as your post demonstrates.

Posted on: 2007/5/11 17:12
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Re: Little J No More

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2006/10/26 23:01
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You're 100% right Jack........I enjoy both for the same reasons.....I just looking for better rationalizations when I have to defend and explain my C and R fishing to others.

Posted on: 2007/5/11 17:16


Re: Little J No More
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When we would challenge my mom's reasons for her rules or directives with a "why," she would say "because I said so!" It was the most honest rationalization she could muster. Similarly, that is how I choose to defend my fishing practices-- "because I enjoy it."

Posted on: 2007/5/11 17:26
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I don't like spinach, and I'm glad I don't, because if I liked it I'd eat it, and I just hate it. --Clarence Darrow


Re: Little J No More

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2006/9/9 17:18
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Quote:
I guess I should explain the whole "cull the herd comment". My thought process on this has always been that if you kill a trout that was dumb enough to take a fly then you leave that niche open for a slightly smarter trout who will then pass on his genetics, thus ensuring that the fittest offspring will be the ones reproducing.


what if the smart one was eating bugs to stay alive and the other were stupid and starving to death. then you just culled the last remaining trout with the good genetics.

Posted on: 2007/5/11 17:52
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Re: Little J No More

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2006/9/14 10:34
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I'm sorry, but I'm still baffled by the whole "I feel good about killing an animal, but guilty about catching it and letting it go" emotion.

I have never felt that I had to "defend" my C&R practices to others. Explain it, yes, because I have often had that puzzled reaction to it. But I just tell people the truth, that I enjoy the sport and the outdoor experience of catching them, but I don't really want to kill them and I don't really want to eat them. I'd rather leave them for others to enjoy catching. And I feel good about that, not guilty.

Posted on: 2007/5/11 19:36
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Re: Little J No More

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so do i wulff. brookies have been around for so long. i like to think that the ones i catch and release will breed and create other brookies. then 100 years from now, if we havent destroyed everything, someone else will catch fish that came from the one i held in my hand. kinda links me past my time.

Posted on: 2007/5/11 19:45
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Re: Little J No More

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I just got back from my first good sulphur outing of the season. I caught and released a bunch of wild browns. I'm feeling soooo conflicted.

Whoooo Hoooo!!!! It' sulphur time, and the living is easy. Fish are jumping.....

Posted on: 2007/5/11 20:55


Re: Little J No More

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2007/5/10 0:41
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Gosh. I can't believe how long this thread has continued - and without degenerating into a slugfest. I'm new to this board, though, maybe you guys don't do slugfests.

I almost feel guilty for having taken the evening off to fish :) I saw sulphurs too, but only a couple and the fish weren't rising to them. In fact, they weren't rising to anything (#@#!@#!) and I was doing well on BWO's just yesterday...

Here's how I defend voluntary CR to non fisher people:

1. Practice. I might need to live on this someday.

2. Education - for the trout. I agree with salvelinusfontinalis. I never, ever kill wild native brookies. There aren't enough of them. There will never again be enough of them. But, if I find myself in a place where they are big enough to fish for I will fish for them to try to teach them not to be so damn stupid (I won't mention the times they've made me look stupid).

Here's how I do it: I kiss them on the lips and release them with the instructions to go and sin no more. It's cruel and unusual I know, but if that doesn't educate them I don't know what will.

3. It's fun. I feel no need to justify that. But if I had to I would say it does no real damage, it teaches me about the world I live in and makes me want to take care of it, and it involves me in a community of people who are passionate conservationists. What could be better than that?

But I still like to eat a couple browns now and then, and the wild ones are SO much better :)

Posted on: 2007/5/11 22:55
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Re: Little J No More

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you must be new....we dont do slugfests HA!
p.s. kiss the fish doesnt seem cruel, maybe just a little odd

Posted on: 2007/5/11 23:12
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Re: Little J No More

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2006/12/11 18:42
From Manheim, PA
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Just read this post for the first time.

"every now and then, you have to kill one or it all means nothing."

I guess I'll have to use this kind of backward logic when meeting new people. I can only take meeting so many stupid people in 1 year so I guess I'll have to kill 1 every now and again.

I fish, therefore I am. I protect and preserve wild trout. That is all the meaning I need.

Posted on: 2007/5/11 23:37
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Re: Little J No More

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2006/10/26 23:01
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Quote:
I fish, therefore I am. I protect and preserve wild trout.


These two above activities are mutually exclusive. There is nothing DIRECTLY about the fishing act that protects fishs. Releasing fish helps conserve a resource but catching and releasing fish does more harm than not fishing at all.

Can the trout populations handle the stress of C and R fishing?

Absolutely. So the point is practically moot.

My whole point with my posts is that C and R fishing is not neccessarily more ethical than keeping fish you catch.

The C and R fisherman does more good than the meat fisherman when he releases fish in waters that are threatened by overharvest.

I would also argue that the meat fisherman does more good than the C and R fisherman when he keeps fish from a non-threatened waterhed because is providing someone with food from his efforts while a C and R fisherman is not.

A meat fisherman may even be doing more good than a C and R fisherman if he harvests say brown trout that we stocked over a brook trout population....he's providing food AND protecting the brook trout, while the C and R fisherman is doing neither.

The creel is the justification for fishing in the first place. The C and R ethic evolved out of a conservation ethic when creels became excessive and depleted resources. When a watershed becomes completely C and R, the original justification for fishing is lost and a new one has to be found. If society says that entertainment of the fisherman is enough justification for fishing, I can live with that........I'm just saying I feel that the meat fisherman has as much if not more justification for his fishing than the C and R fisherman does on most waters.

Posted on: 2007/5/12 8:04


Re: Little J No More

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Let me also speak to the actually act of killing fish. Trubski and several others have spoken to the fact that they feel killing of fish is necessary some of the time.

Unless you have actually killed another animal while hunting or fishing, this is very difficult to explain, but I will try.....

When you kill a fish in a very intimate way like chopping off its head, you gain a really carnal appreciation of the ultimate sacrifice that the fish is making for you. It dies so you can live. Some cultures and people actually believe that game and fish actually allow themselves to be caught or hunted as a way of fulfilling this destiny. The biblical references are obvious but this is something found in many cultures. You gain a love and respect for that fish or animal that you would not gain by buying meat in a grocery store.

Although it is almost impossible to explain to someone that has not fished or hunting, the above experience almost makes the act of fishing or hunting an act of love for the fish or animal.

This post may seem to contidict my last post in some ways, but I'm speaking purely on a spiritual and emotional level here, while the last post was pure logic.

Enough......I have yardwork and fishing to do.

Posted on: 2007/5/12 8:31


Re: Little J No More

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Quote:

But if I had to I would say it does no real damage, it teaches me about the world I live in and makes me want to take care of it, and it involves me in a community of people who are passionate conservationists.


This is a very important point. I've met a lot of people in the agencies and academia involved in aquatic conservation issues. Only the ones who fish have a deep understanding of streams.

I think traditionally most people who went into aquatic conservation fields were fishermen. There seems to be a trend for a lot of non-fishermen to be entering this field, and I think it's somewhat worrying. They are well intentioned people, but because they have little experience on the streams, there's just so much that they don't know. If you fish a lot and are reasonably observant, you learn a tremendous amount over the years. Including stuff that doesn't appear in the textbooks.

Posted on: 2007/5/12 11:10


Re: Little J No More

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A short piece written by John Gierach on the subject of releasing and/or killing fish:

"Maybe it's just the people I fish with, but I think I've seen that attitude soften a little in recent years. My friends and I still spend a lot of time on catch-and-release areas because the fishing is usually at least better than average, and we often release trout even in places where the law doesn't require it.

But we also like to keep some now and then on waters where that's legal and when it otherwise seems right. "

The whole article is here:

http://www.ruralvermont.com/vermontwe ... 004/releasing_trout.shtml

Posted on: 2007/5/12 11:45
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Re: Little J No More

Joined:
2006/12/11 18:42
From Manheim, PA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I fish, therefore I am. I protect and preserve wild trout.


These two above activities are mutually exclusive. There is nothing DIRECTLY about the fishing act that protects fishs. Releasing fish helps conserve a resource but catching and releasing fish does more harm than not fishing at all.


The first part is self explanitory. I didn't feel like writing a long post about how I do the second part and the activites I do and are active in to do this because I hate long posts. I thought that that would have been self explanitory also based upon what people have read in previous posts of mine. But basically I DO NOT Kill wild trout.

I feel that urge to kill stupid people again.

Posted on: 2007/5/12 12:44
_________________
I can spell Leprechaun. Some idiots can't and have to practice.
I PREFER BROOK TROUT so SMB!



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