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Re: Know where you are fishing
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2006/9/9 17:32
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Well....we almost made it to trout season without having this debate.

Oh well, like opening day, I suppose it's a tradition.

Posted on: 3/25 11:22


Re: Know where you are fishing

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From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
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RRR,

Quote:
Cedar Creek (Lake Muhlenburg outflow downstream to mouth)


i.e. it is one of those cases where they do list limits (which is more common in general in SE PA). Anything from the outflow downstream is ATW. Anything upstream of the lake is not.

You can fish, on a C&R basis, upstream of the lake, but nowhere downstream of it to it's mouth, whether or not it's stocked in that particular section, marked with posters, etc. I think that one's clear enough.

As for the Lehigh: it's listed as an ATW from the F.E. Walter Dam outflow downstream to the confluence of Sandy Run. Again, there are limits listed.

Hence you cannot fish at all in the ATW. You can fish below the confluence of Sandy Run, but all trout caught must be released unharmed until the opener.

Regarding the "areas downstream", technically, that's only for the extended season. i.e. while the season closes on Sept. 2 for everywhere else, if it's not an ATW, but downstream of one (such as the Lehigh where you are talking), it remains open to harvest, with a limit of 3 fish, through the end of Feb. Here's the language:

Quote:
Approved trout waters are closed to fishing from March 1 to the opening day of the regular trout season.


Hence it does not say "and areas downstream" like it does for the extended season language.


Posted on: 3/25 11:37

Edited by pcray1231 on 2014/3/25 11:52:23
Edited by pcray1231 on 2014/3/25 11:55:14


Re: Know where you are fishing

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Categories:

Regular season (opening day through Sept. 2): All waters open to fishing and harvest of trout, with a limit of 5 legal trout.

Extended season (Sept. 2 through Feb. 28): In ATW's and areas downstream of such, the limit drops to 3. If it is not an ATW, nor downstream of one, you can fish C&R only.

Closed season (March 1 - opening day): All ATW's closed to all fishing. All others C&R only.

So all you need to know is what's an ATW. The Fish Commission lists them. If they list limits, then those are the limits of the ATW section. If they merely list the stream name, then the entire stream is an ATW, whether or not the entire stream is actually stocked or whether there are wild-only areas on it.

Posted on: 3/25 11:55


Re: Know where you are fishing

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2006/9/13 10:18
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Quote:

Mike wrote:
The particular officer could be out of signs, but more likely does not post the streams until immediately prior to opening day because the signs have in some cases have seemed to CAUSE poaching problems.

You're right about that, I always seemed to me that the may as well have said "fish here."

Posted on: 3/25 11:57


Re: Know where you are fishing

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2013/10/29 14:04
From Westmoreland/Tioga
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Quote:

dryflyguy wrote:
Big Fishing Creek - in clinton county - is stocked in it's last mile or two before it dumps into bald eagle creek, in mill hall. Then has many miles of class A water upstream - same name, same county - before the special regs water in the narrows.
In the past, I've fished that middle class A section on occasion before opening day.
Sure sounds like that is illegal, and I could have been fined


ATW listing for Fishing Creek -> Fishing Creek (confluence with Cedar Run downstream to mouth)

You would be ok above Cedar Run.

Posted on: 3/25 12:08


Re: Know where you are fishing

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2007/2/20 0:36
From Barto PA
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pcray thank you for taking the time and effort to clarify the regulations for me. I'm in my sixties and have been fly fishing since I was 5 or 6 yrs. old. It just seems like we are so overburdened by rules and regs. that are different on every body of water that we fish. I guess I should be happy in a way because back when I first started I think all trout fishing was closed from Labor day thru April 15th which was always opening day when I was a kid. The only waters you could fish during the closed season back then were the few special reg. areas that existed like the Little Lehigh and Fisherman's Paradise. However, it was much simpler back then. Again, thanks for your response. Maybe it's just all too much for my old brain to handle.

Posted on: 3/25 12:14


Re: Know where you are fishing

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Quote:

pcray1231 wrote:
Dry fly,

The problem is that the section you were fishing isn't "above an ATW", it IS ATW. People have this tendency to think that the section that is ATW only goes up as high as the upper stocking limit. But that is not the case.

If the stream is listed ATW, then the whole stream is ATW, even above the upper most stocking point. The only exception is the relatively rare case where they actually list an upper limit to the ATW section. Most of the time, they merely list the stream name.

It's a common situation in PA where a downstream area is stocked and an upstream area is not stocked, but holds wild fish (or even class A). But in most of these cases, the whole stream is listed as an ATW and even the wild trout areas are off limits.


Most Class A waters are not ATW, in fact only a small percentage are, and that is not covered in the fishing Class A Waters when the Trout Season is closed. The Upper and Lower Limits of ATW's are posted on the PFBC web site, therefore if the Class A water is immediately above the ATW, and unlikely scenario, it is not closed to fishing, only to harvest.

As for the Lehigh River if you're fishing for something other than trout it seems to me like the rules say you can, but if you catch trout then you have to put them back.

Posted on: 3/25 12:20


Re: Know where you are fishing

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Chaz, you're right about Big Fishing, I missed the upper boundary, sorry.

Quote:
The Upper and Lower Limits of ATW's are posted on the PFBC web site.


Sometimes, not always. In some areas of PA the vast majority just say "X Creek", with no limits placed on the ATW, even if only a small section is stocked.

I do think it has gotten better over time, with the PFBC putting upstream and/or downstream limits on many. Still, there are a number of wild trout streams, in sections that aren't stocked, which are currently closed to fishing.

Posted on: 3/25 12:39


Re: Know where you are fishing

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2006/12/13 9:28
From Other side of the tracks
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Quote:

RRR wrote:
Is this a new rule? As someone stated, the rule book used to say "and down stream areas..."


Not a new rule.

The "downstream areas" exception only applies to the extended season rules. If there is a specified lower limit to an ATW (for example, Tionesta Creek), the extended season rules with lower harvest applies also apply there. But that area below the ATW boundary is not ATW and therefore is not closed to fishing between March 1 and opening day.

Actually as pcray has pointed out before, areas upstream of published ATW boundaries (if they exist) are also not closed to fishing at any time. But extended season creel limit does not apply there so no harvest is allowed after about labor day but you can still fish.

It's simple, really.

Edit: Sorry to waste your time. I typed that before reading Pat's #18. He summed it up well.

Posted on: 3/25 15:51
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Re: Know where you are fishing

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2006/9/13 10:18
From LV
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Quote:

pcray1231 wrote:
Chaz, you're right about Big Fishing, I missed the upper boundary, sorry.

Quote:
The Upper and Lower Limits of ATW's are posted on the PFBC web site.


Sometimes, not always. In some areas of PA the vast majority just say "X Creek", with no limits placed on the ATW, even if only a small section is stocked.

I do think it has gotten better over time, with the PFBC putting upstream and/or downstream limits on many. Still, there are a number of wild trout streams, in sections that aren't stocked, which are currently closed to fishing.

All of the stocking limited are listed by the GPS coordinates on the PFBC web site, as Mike said, know where you are fishing.

Posted on: 3/25 15:57


Re: Know where you are fishing

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In post 21 Chaz almost had it right. The correction is that what is stated on the PFBC stocking schedule on the PFBC web site's stocking schedule as being the stocking limits is not the legal reference for the ATW's. The regulation, as formally written, specifically refers to the Summary Booklet as the final legal document that determines the ATW limits. Stick with the limits stated in the Summary Booklet. If there are no limits stated there and your stream of interest is listed in whole for a specific county, then you may not fish any portion it during the period March1 to opening day in that county unless you are in a special reg area.


As for the complexity of the regs, some have become more complex as the PFBC staff and Commissioners have thought of ways for anglers to enjoy days afield without damaging the resource as long as they follow the regs.

Posted on: 3/25 17:28


Re: Know where you are fishing

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2011/5/9 15:37
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Quote:

FarmerDave wrote:
Here's one for you , Mike.

I once wondered outside of a special reg by a few feet a couple days before the opener. It was on East Hickory. I was actually above the sign, but below the bridge which was the real boundary.

I didn't know, and since we were C&R, the WCO only gave us a warning and explained the boundary.


Even though the boundary is technically the bridge I've always considered that pool below the bridge to be part of the DHALO because of the sign being right there. Good thing I've never fished it before the opener. I can definitely see many other people making that mistake since it is misleading, and the sign should probably be moved(either to the bridge, or just extend the boundary downstream to the riffle).

Posted on: 3/25 17:31


Re: Know where you are fishing

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2013/5/28 12:09
From Lilly, PA
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Thank you all for clearing that up. I thought all Class A waters were open to fishing year round.

There is a ATW with a Class A headwater section near my house. The entire stream is listed as an ATW. I even called the PFBC and verified that I was allowed to fish the Class A section of the stream, but that was a few years back. Guess the regs have changed since then.

I will be sticking to the marked special regulation areas for my preseason fishing from now on.

Posted on: 3/25 21:45
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Re: Know where you are fishing
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2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
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Quote:

Fishidiot wrote:
Well....we almost made it to trout season without having this debate.

Oh well, like opening day, I suppose it's a tradition.



Dang!...I know. We almost made it!

Posted on: 3/26 7:29


Re: Know where you are fishing

Joined:
2006/9/13 10:18
From LV
Posts: 7536
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Quote:

PAgeologist wrote:
Thank you all for clearing that up. I thought all Class A waters were open to fishing year round.

There is a ATW with a Class A headwater section near my house. The entire stream is listed as an ATW. I even called the PFBC and verified that I was allowed to fish the Class A section of the stream, but that was a few years back. Guess the regs have changed since then.

I will be sticking to the marked special regulation areas for my preseason fishing from now on.

No there was no change in the regs as far as I know, they've always been clear as mud on Class A waters.

Posted on: 3/26 16:03



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