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Re: finally get to have a brookie adventure

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2011/5/9 15:37
From Ohio
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Good stuff!!

Posted on: 2013/7/31 13:08


Re: finally get to have a brookie adventure

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2012/2/15 16:35
From Butler, Pa
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my mind is blown....

Posted on: 2013/7/31 15:17


Re: finally get to have a brookie adventure

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2006/9/13 10:18
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Pat, The lateral line is clearly visible on the brookies in the OP. There are lines of red spots below the lateral line on both fish.
On your fish there are also red spots below the lateral line.
In look at fish I've caught the are various spot or bar patterns on the dorsel fin, including one that is clearly checkered with spots inside the checks. Isnce I'm not working on my pc I can't say what the fish look lie that I caught in the ANF or in SW PA. That will have to wait.

Posted on: 2013/7/31 18:32
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It's time to stop stocking all wild trout streams no matter what Classification they are, and time to eradicate brown trout in some of our limestone streams and re-establish brookies in them.


Re: finally get to have a brookie adventure

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Chaz, I know I type too much. :) But I did mention that I was wrong in calling it the lateral line, which is typically higher than the midpoint of the sides.

Generally, patterns go lower towards the belly on Susquehanna fish. Again, it holds MOST of the time on the streams I fish. It's not foolproof.

Posted on: 2013/7/31 21:27


Re: finally get to have a brookie adventure

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I counted 6 rows of spots on one fish I caught fairly recently, it had over 40 spots. I once caught a fish with only 2 spots.

Posted on: 2013/7/31 21:31
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It's time to stop stocking all wild trout streams no matter what Classification they are, and time to eradicate brown trout in some of our limestone streams and re-establish brookies in them.


Re: finally get to have a brookie adventure

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I had a fish I caught repeatedly over a few years with 3 spots. All perfectly in a row. Looked like Orion's belt, haha. Same lie every time.

Skuke trib, and I know you've fished the stream many times.

I've never seen a NW PA fish with a single row. But some of them don't have a lot of spots. I have seen single row patterns in both the D and Susquehanna drainages, quite frequently actually.

I've seen fish, in all drainages, with a whole lot of spots, but I don't think I ever counted 6 rows. Though at that point I might just take it to be random orientation rather than rowed.

Posted on: 2013/7/31 21:43


Re: finally get to have a brookie adventure

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had one with four in this same outing but he slipped through before the pic cause I mentioned catching again he would be an easy disticntion

Posted on: 2013/7/31 23:19


Re: finally get to have a brookie adventure

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2006/12/13 9:28
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Interesting discussion. I never paid much attention to the spots and not that I think of it., I don't remember ever catching native brook trout east of the divide unless you count Connecticut and to me those looked about the same.

I had however noticed differences in coloration of trout in certain drainage. For example, I know of one Clarion River trib where the orange sides are more of a pinkish, almost a deep fuchsia color. the forest around it was dominated with hemlock.

I would guess the fish in the OP were from a different stream for a couple reasons.

1. Different coloration.
2. The stream I was talking about is posted. Or at least it was, and likely still is. I used to sneak in there decades ago.

If I were to guess on the OPS stream, I'd guess that his stream is actually a trib of a trib of the Clarion. I'm not saying anything else and if I was right, it was just a very lucky guess.

Posted on: 2013/8/1 9:01
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There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know. The keeping of bees, for instance." -Henry David Thoreau--


Re: finally get to have a brookie adventure

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Dave, the OP said it was a Clarion trib.

For the purposes of my "analysis", that does mean Allegheny drainage. I have generally believed that overall coloration, meaning deepness of reds, greens, blues, yellows, etc., is mostly environmental and diet, rather than genetic. I could be wrong on that. It's also variable by time of year, both due to diet and hormones.

Posted on: 2013/8/1 11:14


Re: finally get to have a brookie adventure

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Pat here is a fish from the same stream. It has quite a few more spots then what you describe. I suppose that what I'm saying is don't count on spots as a indication of where the fish is from.
I just posted a link to survey results of a couple of un-assessed stream in the ANF that has a pic of a brookie that shows the spot pattern clearly. It's in the Conservation forum.

Attach file:



jpg  Skuke Drainage Brookie.jpg (59.36 KB)
103_51faa27d7cccc.jpg 608X456 px

Posted on: 2013/8/1 14:02


Re: finally get to have a brookie adventure

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Quote:

pcray1231 wrote:
Dave, the OP said it was a Clarion trib.

For the purposes of my "analysis", that does mean Allegheny drainage. I have generally believed that overall coloration, meaning deepness of reds, greens, blues, yellows, etc., is mostly environmental and diet, rather than genetic. I could be wrong on that. It's also variable by time of year, both due to diet and hormones.


It is true that he said that and I did see it. But I just have this gut feeling that it was actually a trib of a trib of the Clarion.

When he said forest, I just had a feeling he meant Cook Forest instead of ANF and that was my old stomping grounds.

As far as the rest of that goes, I wasn't arguing with you. In fact, have not said anything that disagrees with what you said. It all sounded reasonable to me.

When I said I hadn't noticed, it was because I hadn't looked all that close.

Read avatar.

Posted on: 2013/8/1 15:22
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There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know. The keeping of bees, for instance." -Henry David Thoreau--


Re: finally get to have a brookie adventure

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Ha no Dave no where near there. Different state forest.

Posted on: 2013/8/1 16:40


Re: finally get to have a brookie adventure

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Chaz, I don't consider a spot "count" as an indicator. I've seen both very few and a whole lot of spots in all of the above. It's more how they are arranged.

In regards to your fish, yeah, the patterns on that go low, and encroach upon the belly. Sharp tail markings in an arc as well. I would have guessed that fish NOT to have come from the Allegheny drainage. I'm curious. When you say "same stream", do you mean same as the OP, as in Clarion trib? Or do you mean same as your 6 line fish, or same as my 3 spot fish (i.e. Susquehanna or D. systems). I'm not saying the method is foolproof, but I'd be honestly surprised if that one came from the Allegheny drainage. Doesn't even look like a tweener.

Posted on: 2013/8/1 21:17


Re: finally get to have a brookie adventure

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[quote]
pcray1231 wrote:
When you say "same stream", do you mean same as the OP, as in Clarion trib? Or do you mean same as your 6 line fish, or same as my 3 spot fish (i.e. Susquehanna or D. systems). Same as your stream DE. drainage. What I'm saying is that I wouldn't rely on spot patterns to determine where a fish came from. But what do I know, I don't have any fish pics from the Allegheny Drainage to compare with other pics.

Posted on: 2013/8/3 12:58


Re: finally get to have a brookie adventure

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2009/7/18 13:57
From Armstrong County
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Here are some pictures I have of natives from each watershed...

Allegheny Watershed (I have more but not stored online)

Click to see original Image in a new window

Click to see original Image in a new window

Susquehanna Watershed

Click to see original Image in a new window

Click to see original Image in a new window


If anything I'm seeing more of the large yellow spots on the Susquehanna Drainage fish.



Posted on: 2013/8/3 18:36



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