Register now on PaFlyFish.com! Login
HOME FORUM BLOG PHOTOS LINKS


Sponsors

Browsing this Thread:   1 Anonymous Users



« 1 (2) 3 4 »


Re: Creel limit changes: typically not the effect that you might expect

Joined:
2006/9/9 10:36
From Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 730
Offline
Quote:

JackM wrote:
Let's just ask what is reasonable. The answer is 5 or less. If you want to take 8 trout as an individual angler, then you should take a couple weeks off. Stop the greed. The rest of us have to worry about harvest effects so others paying the same for their license can take 60 trout per season. That's BS. 5 is enough. I have spoken.

What ever happened to "limit your harvest, don't harvest your limit?" It is a social ethic, not a biological management technique. Does that make it bad?


You can't win an argument about creel limits.

Individuals either love and respect the resource, or they don't. How you define the resource -- whether you define it as the fish themselves, the river ecosystem, or the wilderness that surrounds it -- is irrelevant.

People either have a (typically inherent) respect for these things, or they don't.

You can certainly hope to educate individuals and teach this respect, but framing the argument around creel limits is a waste of time.

Posted on: 2013/9/7 10:33
_________________
Hatch Magazine - Fly fishing, etc.
http://www.hatchmag.com


Re: Creel limit changes: typically not the effect that you might expect
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/9 9:29
From Monessen, PA
Posts: 21729
Offline
Quote:

greenlander wrote:


You can certainly hope to educate individuals and teach this respect, but framing the argument around creel limits is a waste of time.


There is a theory of law that supposes that a positive effect of having the "authority" declare something "illegal" is that it teaches a moral ethic or social norm, so to speak. So why not encourage the limit of harvest that people should abide?

Posted on: 2013/9/7 10:52
_________________
I don't like spinach, and I'm glad I don't, because if I liked it I'd eat it, and I just hate it. --Clarence Darrow


Re: Creel limit changes: typically not the effect that you might expect

Joined:
2006/9/9 10:36
From Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 730
Offline
Quote:

JackM wrote:
There is a theory of law that supposes that a positive effect of having the "authority" declare something "illegal" is that it teaches a moral ethic or social norm, so to speak. So why not encourage the limit of harvest that people should abide?


We're living in the same country right now, yes?

Have you not noticed the absolutely reflexive negative attitude that people in this country have been propagandized into having towards any kind of regulation (especially increased existing regulation), regardless of how well meaning and needed those regulations may be?

What are you, a communist? Do you want to take my guns too?

Posted on: 2013/9/7 10:58
_________________
Hatch Magazine - Fly fishing, etc.
http://www.hatchmag.com


Re: Creel limit changes: typically not the effect that you might expect
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/9 9:29
From Monessen, PA
Posts: 21729
Offline
I'll take your guns if'n you don't need them. They may be more valuable soon.

Posted on: 2013/9/7 11:35
_________________
I don't like spinach, and I'm glad I don't, because if I liked it I'd eat it, and I just hate it. --Clarence Darrow


Re: Creel limit changes: typically not the effect that you might expect

Joined:
2006/9/9 10:36
From Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 730
Offline
Quote:

JackM wrote:
I'll take your guns if'n you don't need them. They may be more valuable soon.


Exactly.

So much for that theory of law, eh? ;)

Posted on: 2013/9/7 13:27
_________________
Hatch Magazine - Fly fishing, etc.
http://www.hatchmag.com


Re: Creel limit changes: typically not the effect that you might expect
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/9 9:29
From Monessen, PA
Posts: 21729
Offline
You calling me unethical just because I don't have a felony, ain't addicted to heroin and have never been treated for serious mental illness.?

Posted on: 2013/9/7 14:19
_________________
I don't like spinach, and I'm glad I don't, because if I liked it I'd eat it, and I just hate it. --Clarence Darrow


Re: Creel limit changes: typically not the effect that you might expect

Joined:
2009/4/11 18:51
From State College
Posts: 849
Offline
Quote:
You can't win an argument about creel limits.

Individuals either love and respect the resource, or they don't. How you define the resource -- whether you define it as the fish themselves, the river ecosystem, or the wilderness that surrounds it -- is irrelevant


Nail on the head. I fished the mouth of spring (bald eagle) a few days ago in milesburg, where a guy and a lady showed me two fine specimes of wild brown trout. Such a shame.

Posted on: 2013/9/7 14:37
_________________
"If fish had the exact same flavor and alcohol content of PBR, I'd likely be packin' a stringer and old can of night crawlers down to the river"-Hank


Re: Creel limit changes: typically not the effect that you might expect

Joined:
2006/9/9 10:36
From Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 730
Offline
Quote:

JackM wrote:
You calling me unethical just because I don't have a felony, ain't addicted to heroin and have never been treated for serious mental illness.?


As long as you've only been treated for run-of-the-mill mental illness, you're okay in my book. :)

Posted on: 2013/9/7 17:47
_________________
Hatch Magazine - Fly fishing, etc.
http://www.hatchmag.com


Re: Creel limit changes: typically not the effect that you might expect

Joined:
2011/7/6 12:30
From Ephrata, PA
Posts: 5993
Offline
Quote:

mario66pens wrote:
Quote:
You can't win an argument about creel limits.

Individuals either love and respect the resource, or they don't. How you define the resource -- whether you define it as the fish themselves, the river ecosystem, or the wilderness that surrounds it -- is irrelevant


Nail on the head. I fished the mouth of spring (bald eagle) a few days ago in milesburg, where a guy and a lady showed me two fine specimes of wild brown trout. Such a shame.


And what was a shame about it?

I generally support catch and release, but there are some streams, such as Spring, that have such a high density of fish that harvesting may actually help the general population. It would certainly help the overall size of the fish. You can have TOO many trout in a stream, especially if food can't support the high population.

Posted on: 2013/9/7 18:05


Re: Creel limit changes: typically not the effect that you might expect

Joined:
2006/11/2 8:50
Posts: 5788
Offline
Quote:

The_Sasquatch wrote:

I generally support catch and release, but there are some streams, such as Spring, that have such a high density of fish that harvesting may actually help the general population. It would certainly help the overall size of the fish. You can have TOO many trout in a stream, especially if food can't support the high population.


That reminds me of a conversation I had with a guy from NC PA. He and his family owned a big chunk of forest land, around 800 acres I think, with a brook trout stream running through it.

He told me the brookies never get very big, hardly any ever over 7 inches long.

He said we catch as many as we can, all through the season, to keep them from getting over-populated, but they just don't get any bigger.

He wasn't joking! He was serious.

Posted on: 2013/9/7 18:54


Re: Creel limit changes: typically not the effect that you might expect

Joined:
2006/9/9 10:36
From Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 730
Offline
Quote:

troutbert wrote:

He told me the brookies never get very big, hardly any ever over 7 inches long.

He said we catch as many as we can, all through the season, to keep them from getting over-populated, but they just don't get any bigger.

He wasn't joking! He was serious.


It's not his fault that dumb stupid brook trout don't grow faster.

Posted on: 2013/9/7 19:10
_________________
Hatch Magazine - Fly fishing, etc.
http://www.hatchmag.com


Re: Creel limit changes: typically not the effect that you might expect
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/9 9:29
From Monessen, PA
Posts: 21729
Offline
Well, I don't think he is stupid. Larger trout require more food. Forage is rare in most Brook Trout streams. Taking a couple here and there may actually help, but will not likely hurt the stream.

Posted on: 2013/9/8 9:11
_________________
I don't like spinach, and I'm glad I don't, because if I liked it I'd eat it, and I just hate it. --Clarence Darrow


Re: Creel limit changes: typically not the effect that you might expect
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/9 19:16
From Dallastown, PA
Posts: 6828
Offline
Quote:

The_Sasquatch wrote:
Quote:

mario66pens wrote:
Quote:
You can't win an argument about creel limits.

Individuals either love and respect the resource, or they don't. How you define the resource -- whether you define it as the fish themselves, the river ecosystem, or the wilderness that surrounds it -- is irrelevant


Nail on the head. I fished the mouth of spring (bald eagle) a few days ago in milesburg, where a guy and a lady showed me two fine specimes of wild brown trout. Such a shame.


And what was a shame about it?

I generally support catch and release, but there are some streams, such as Spring, that have such a high density of fish that harvesting may actually help the general population. It would certainly help the overall size of the fish. You can have TOO many trout in a stream, especially if food can't support the high population.


So what you are saying is that the key to making bigger trout is to kill the bigger trout. That is a zero sum game with a delayed response. If there are too many trout to grow big ones you need to kill the age class with the over population, not the "nice ones".

A killed trophy pleases one angler. A released trophy has the potential to please many. Its not difficult to understand.

Posted on: 2013/9/8 9:24
_________________
Don't hit me with them negative waves so early in the morning. Think the bridge will be there and it will be there. It's a mother, beautiful bridge, and it's gonna be there. Ok?


Re: Creel limit changes: typically not the effect that you might expect

Joined:
2010/9/1 13:55
From State College PA
Posts: 470
Offline
Mario66 (or is it Morneau66 for the next 2 months?)
Imagine what the LBE would be like with even a few regs? Being from the area, we both know what an uproar that would bring. Fishing the bald Eagle on opening day is engrained into the culture.
I'd settle for a DHALO from the mouth of spring creek until the trestle. That would be huge for the stream. I wonder if getting the word out that the stream has only been stocked with rainbows the last two years would make some people think twice about taking the browns?
The thing about limits is that they are self enforced, an honor system. I've too often seen people exceed the limits on the LBE. I never have to say something, just look. Then the excuses start (I have a family picnic, I caught none yesterday....)

And let's not forget the worse behavior, "stringer rotation"- walking out with the limit, while tossing back the smaller fish already killed.

I'm sure you've seen the harvest fisherman sneaking up into spring creek catching fish and stringing them in the LBE past the mouth.

Posted on: 2013/9/8 9:33


Re: Creel limit changes: typically not the effect that you might expect

Joined:
2006/9/9 10:36
From Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 730
Offline
I was just being a wise ass.

That said, I'm no biologist, but I'm entirely certain that harvesting as many fish as you're able to isn't a recipe for bigger trouts.

Posted on: 2013/9/8 9:38
_________________
Hatch Magazine - Fly fishing, etc.
http://www.hatchmag.com



« 1 (2) 3 4 »



You can view topic.
You cannot start a new topic.
You cannot reply to posts.
You cannot edit your posts.
You cannot delete your posts.
You cannot add new polls.
You cannot vote in polls.
You cannot attach files to posts.
You cannot post without approval.

[Advanced Search]





Site Content
Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
Stay Connected

twitterfeed.com facebook instagram RSS Feed

Sponsors
Polls
What kind of streams do you primarily fish?
Approved Trout Waters (Stocked Fish)
Class A Wild Trout Streams
Special Regulation Areas
Wilderness Trout Streams
No Preference All Trout Streams
171 total votes!
The poll will close at 2014/4/30 15:00
4 Comments
USGS Water Levels





Copyright 2014 by PaFlyFish.com | Privacy Policy| Provided by Kile Media Group | Design by 7dana.com