Bamboo

[Wulff]

I was wondering if there are any other bamboo users on the site. Let me know. Thanks.

 

[FarmerDave]

Wulff wrote:
I was wondering if there are any other bamboo users on the site. Let me know. Thanks.

Yes. I greatly prefer cane over plastic.

 

[pcray1231]

yes, I have exactly 1 bamboo rod, a Dreamcatcher made by Wyatt Dietrich out of Chambersburg. I do like it and use it a fair amount. It's my go to on medium-large streams when I expect I'll be doing a fair amount of dry fly fishing, which for me is maybe 30% of my fishing.

 

[pcray1231]

And Dave, shame on you. Graphite is not a plastic. Plastics are polymeric. Graphite isn't a polymer.

^^^Materials Engineer geekiness shining through.

 

[Wulff]

Well played.

 

[FarmerDave]

pcray1231 wrote:
And Dave, shame on you. Graphite is not a plastic. Plastics are polymeric. Graphite isn't a polymer.

^^^Materials Engineer geekiness shining through.

Your geekiness fails you this time.

It's true that graphite is not a polymer, but graphite is only the substrate. The rest of a graphite fly rod blank is polymeric.

Stick to metal Pat.;-)

Why would someone want a wooden reel seat insert on a plastic fly rod?

 

[Wulff]

Not that I want to change the subject of bamboo vs. plastic/polymer.graphite....but does anyone know if the small stream running through Milford holds trout? Or the actual name of the stream? I can't seem to find it anywhere. And to keep this comment relevant to the bamboo thread, I would love to fish my 7' 4/5 weight Wagner Patriot in there.

 

[wsender]

FarmerDave wrote:

pcray1231 wrote:
And Dave, shame on you. Graphite is not a plastic. Plastics are polymeric. Graphite isn't a polymer.

^^^Materials Engineer geekiness shining through.

Your geekiness fails you this time.

It's true that graphite is not a polymer, but graphite is only the substrate. The rest of a graphite fly rod blank is polymeric.

Stick to metal Pat.;-)

Why would someone want a wooden reel seat insert on a plastic fly rod?

pwnd

 

[Wulff]

I just found it. It's called Sawkill Creek. If anyone knows anything about the stream (access points, etc.) please let me know. Thanks.

 

[FarmerDave]

Wulff, I don't know if it does, but I can tell you how to look it up.

Select "Links" from the dark gray bar under the paflyfish banner.

Select Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission.

Under feature topics, select trout.

From that next page you can find all kinds of information from what streams have natural reproduction, to the Approved Trout Waters list (stocked streams), special regulations... whatever.

If you know what county, you can look it up.

there is even an interactive map (County Guide).

IMO they actually give too much info, but since it is there, use it.

I'd have looked it up for you, but first I would have needed to know what county and I didn't feel like looking that up.

 

[gaeronf]

hey wulff i sent you a pm. I'm a Milford, PA expert! There is no good fly shops unfortunately. So, learn to tie and get used to ordering on line! lol.

 

[pcray1231]

It's true that graphite is not a polymer, but graphite is only the substrate. The rest of a graphite fly rod blank is polymeric.

Two things. First, the manufacture of "graphite". "Graphite" rods aren't actually made of graphite, it's typically carbon fiber, I believe, which is, sort of as you said, a composite of graphene tubes and filler materials. The filler materials can be plastics, but then are typically carberized so that everything but carbon is baked off, so I'm not sure in the finished form if they represent true polymers any longer. I think lately in the push for higher modulus world, they're replacing the plastic fillers with glasses and ceramics, which do not bake off, and thus the carbon fiber ends up being a true composite.

As for the resins used by the actual rod manufacturers: Calling the carbon fiber a "substrate" is akin to saying the substrate of my wall is drywall and the structure is the paint. The resin is a plastic, and it acts as a glue and a finish, but not as structure. I think there's less of it there than you are thinking. Bamboo also uses a polymeric glue and a finish, and the total amount probably isn't much less than the amount of resin in a graphite rod.

I do also think they use a plastic shrink wrap type coating during the baking process to help the shape set correctly, but it comes off afterwards, not a permanent part of the rod.

 

[tomitrout]

^^^^^^^^-- this is exactly why I don't like hanging out with enginerds, even though I am one....


Back to the OT, another cane user here, pretty much exclusively. Currently I don't fish heavier than an 8'/6wt, so my bamboo quiver has all those bases covered. If I ever get into steelheading or fishing the salt w/ an 8 or 10wt, I'll probably look into an appropriate plastic rod, but probably not. Lots of nice cane rods being done in the heavier weights now, especially when you get into the hollowbuilt tapers.

 

[FarmerDave]

 

[FarmerDave]

pcray1231 wrote:

It's true that graphite is not a polymer, but graphite is only the substrate. The rest of a graphite fly rod blank is polymeric.

Two things. First, technically I am wrong for reasons other than what you stated. "Graphite" rods aren't actually made of graphite, it's typically carbon fiber, I believe, which is indeed a polymeric strand weaved together.

But calling the carbon fiber a "substrate" is akin to saying the substrate of my wall is drywall and the structure is the paint. The resin is a plastic, and it acts as a glue and a finish, but not as structure. I think there's less of it there than you are thinking.

Your analogy is severely flawed. In fact, not even close. The paint on a dry wall is just cosmetic and maybe a sealer. it does absolutely nothing structurally. although i did look at a house once where the drywall had been eaten away and all that was left was a layer of paint.;-) The paper on the dry wall would be a better analogy to the resins on a fly rod because it keeps the material from colapsing. that still isn't a good analogy, but better than paint.

Apparently you think the polymers resins and/or thermoplastic resins have less to do with it than it does. Lots of fibers would work. glass fibers used to be used. Carbon fiber is just stronger and lighter. Without the resin, what do you have?

A better analogy would be concrete. without the cement, you have what?

At worst, I didn't select the best word (substrate), but it is clear that is what it is.

Bottom line, graphite rod is just a semi-high-tech plastic and severely overpriced for what you get.

Bamboo also uses a polymeric glue and a finish, and the total amount probably isn't much less than the amount of resin in a graphite rod.

I do also think they use a plastic shrink wrap type coating during the baking process to help the shape set correctly, but it comes off afterwards, not a permanent part of the rod.

Who is "they." Is that the same "they" that Jack refered to yesterday?;-)

You must be talking about your rod, not mine. ... unless you consider spar varnish to be a plastic. That would be a stretch.

I think Orvis uses a thermoplastic resin on their zero gravity line, but I know of nobody who used a "shrink wrap type" coating on cane. It doesn't sound like it would work very well. It certainly is not traditional. Orvis used to do an impregnated cane rod.

It's funny you would go after the glues and finish instead of the obvious (fly line). I do have a few silk lines for future projects, but so far I have rebuild my old rods for use with modern lines.

All of my cane rods are older than me. Some are even older than Pete. My trout rod was originally built when LJ was 1. Not a whole lot of plastic there, but a few of the newer ones (40s and 50s) do have plastic reel seat inserts (not the trout rod) because that was state of the art at the time. I also have a couple of old Bakelite reels.

What can i say, I like traditional materials. I don't like plastic stocks on guns, either.

I don't like plastic furniture, either.

Just don't look too closely at that wooden floor in my kitchen.;-)

And I'll tell you what. Spar varnish is getting really hard to find. It is getting completely replaced by polyurethane. Polyurethane is stronger and better, but not traditional. I should stock up.

I don't know why some of you get so worked up when I refer to those rods as plastic. they is what they is.;-)

P.S. i decided to go with what you originally wrote instead of the vastly edited version.

 

[Nickyboy]

My head is spinning with all this nerd talk, LOL. I like my plastic sage rod just fine. Bamboo is too expensive for my taste. Although I was at the Feathered Hook and was invited outback by Jonas and his in house rod maker whose name escapes me and I must say that I was fascinated with the amount of work that goes into a bamboo rod. They truly are works of art. Someday I am going to try to get one.

 

[JoeE]

Another Bamboo guy here, I haven’t used plastic/composite/graphite whatever you want to call those circular rods these days (LOL) for trout and bass in 15 years or better since I started making my own rods. Only in the Surf do I pull out the only two circular rods I own and have considering building a 10’ 10 wt several times; two made it to the bench cut out and almost started finial planning before I changed the taper and build a shorter rod (both times I need to get starts on gifts). I have been using Shell Epon for years and have a few glued up with titebond III to test.


Joe E

 

[pete41]

I used Bamboo in the East and on Western spring creeks and small mountain brooks and loved them.
However when I was given an Orvis 8 ft. 8 wt.and tried it on bigger waters it didn't take me long to decide tradition was fighting a losing battle with practicality.
Trade in value enough to get one of those new fangled plastic rods.

 

[FarmerDave]

Nickyboy wrote:
My head is spinning with all this nerd talk, LOL. I like my plastic sage rod just fine. Bamboo is too expensive for my taste. Although I was at the Feathered Hook and was invited outback by Jonas and his in house rod maker whose name escapes me and I must say that I was fascinated with the amount of work that goes into a bamboo rod. They truly are works of art. Someday I am going to try to get one.

Hmmm, I don't own a Sage because I feel they are too expensive. Very nice plastic rods though.;-)

I'm pretty sure I have less than $100 into my bamboo steelhead rod when figuring everything in except labor, and I replaced ALL the hardware and even the cork with new. so it has no fancy signature on it. I don't care. Maybe I should have signed it myself before varnishing, but I wasn't sure I'd like the action. I do.

And Joe, I also have a splt bamboo circular rod as well (which I am sure I mentioned to you before. Maybe I should paint it to look like plastic.;-)

I think it is a 9.5 foot and is quite light weight. I don't know the age or make, but I'd guess 1920s or older and it might be English. I plan to restore it and use it for bluegills. I don't think I paid more than $25 for it. Seller on EBAY didn't know what it was so I took a chance. Believe it or not, it is all there complete with two tip sections. I'll probably need to redo the windings and refinish, but no major repairs needed.

 

[FarmerDave]

pete41 wrote:
I used Bamboo in the East and on Western spring creeks and small mountain brooks and loved them.
However when I was given an Orvis 8 ft. 8 wt.and tried it on bigger waters it didn't take me long to decide tradition was fighting a losing battle with practicality.
Trade in value enough to get one of those new fangled plastic rods.

Practical? what's that have to do with it?

Since when is spending hundreds of dollars to catch a few fish only to release them a practical activity in the first place?;-)