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Bait fishing on the Little J
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Attached is the LJRA site with an editorial comment by Bill Anderson, the President of the LJRA, about bait fishing on the Little J. What do you think?


http://www.littlejuniata.org/

Posted on: 2007/6/23 7:09


Re: Bait fishing on the Little J
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I honestly have my doubts about these statements:

" Even though they swim away, studies show that most trout with hooks left in their guts will die within a few days. There have also been numerous studies indicating an overall mortality rate of 50+% for trout released after being caught on live bait."

" (A list of references to these studies will be made available to any of you who wish to have them)."

Otherwise, I think some portion of the large stretch of All Tackle section could be converted to ALO or even FFO to see if there is an appreciable difference in populations.

PS, I also have my doubts about the claims of the bait anglers to have caught 100 trout each.

Posted on: 2007/6/23 7:53
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Re: Bait fishing on the Little J

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Quote:
I honestly have my doubts about these statements:


i dont

Posted on: 2007/6/23 8:04
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Re: Bait fishing on the Little J

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First I'd like to say that as a former bait-fisher I couldn't catch a fish out of the J on a minnow, worm or anything else that was live. I could however catch them on a lure.

Second, I'd like to say that how many bait-fishers fish the J now that it is catch and release. I fish the J quite a bit and haven't come across a bait-fisher yet this year.

Posted on: 2007/6/23 10:17


Re: Bait fishing on the Little J

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I've read reports saying the mortality was in the range of 30-40% for trout caught and released with bait. These were in raceway studies and my guess is that the rate would be somewhat less in fast flowing streams, since more fish would probably be lip hooked than deep hooked where there is current carrying the bait along.

But whatever the number, I do think it's probably true that the mortality rate is pretty high.

But this would be the case not just on the Little Juniata, but everywhere. If you apply such a rule on the Little J, why not apply it on all wild trout streams?

And let's not forget that on the great majority of streams the issue isn't deep hooking mortality on C&R bait fishing. On most streams you can harvest 5 per day.

Regarding the question of whether bait fishermen fish C&R areas. I'm not as familiar with the Little J as with Spring Creek. But on Spring Creek at least, bait fishing is very common, even though it's a C&R stream. You see more of it in the cold times of the year, and when the flows are up, than in low flow periods like now.

You see lots of bait fisherman in the cold months, from fall through winter and through early spring. Then in the summer not so many, except that they come out after a thunderstorm has brought the water back up.

Posted on: 2007/6/23 12:09


Re: Bait fishing on the Little J

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Add on to that the mortality from mishandling from most baiters in general. I know I was hard on them when I was slinging bait. I also remember holding the trout in the air by the line and then cutting it.
Fly, lure, or bait, the deadliest item on most days to catch a large brown in my experience has been the minnow. Larger minnows.

Posted on: 2007/6/23 12:32
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Re: Bait fishing on the Little J

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Maybe you guys are right, but Spring Creek, except for the size of the trout, seems to have thrived over the years. I do not think the diminished size of Spring's trout can be totally attributed to bait fishing; I imagine the fish are handled so many times that they eventually succumb to the handling, hence the smaller size than once was average there. At any rate, we need allies on the LJR, and the guys who fish live bait are, at least at present, our allies against the evil empire of the SRC.

Posted on: 2007/6/23 15:32


Re: Bait fishing on the Little J

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that is a good point rrt, but once the src is gone then what? we cant exactly expect to have the baitfishers excluded once this whole thing is over. i dont doubt the eagle claw snelled bait hooks kill fish, but baitfishers shouldnt be excluded from all special reg areas. i belive this is one, since they are fighting also, they should be allowed on.

Posted on: 2007/6/23 16:13
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Re: Bait fishing on the Little J

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I agree with rrt and Sal, they fought for it too so let them on it. There is plenty of stream there to go around for everyone. In the times I've ever been there I've seen maybe 2-3 bait anglers ever anyway. The first time I ever fished the stream, 10 or so years ago (about 11 or 12 years old), my buddy and I used hellgramites and worms and we caught probably 30 between us in 4 or 5 hours, so I see no reason why someone with bait who is good and knows what they're doing can't catch 100 in a day. Some people just get too caught up in what others are doing, if you don't believe someone who says they caught X amount of fish then don't believe them but dont accuse them of being a liar just because it hasn't happened to you. Just my two cents on that...

Posted on: 2007/6/23 19:49


Re: Bait fishing on the Little J

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The bugger about these kind of topics is that except for Ranger Keen and precious few others the rest of us started out as baitfishermen. Although it irritates me about the practices most baiters do, it makes me a hypocrite to absolutely condemn them. I know my first fish was a sunny on bread and my 2nd was a chub on a worm. Countless trout paid the ultimate price to give me enjoyment in the following years. But I was a kid then.
Though I dont believe baiters are enemies of any form very few are my allies anyway. I would rather see "no fishing" period on SRC waters than see the sport fleeced to line someones pockets who claims to be a conservationist and (I'll NEVER forget this one) "do it for our children and grandchildren". The most common reply I hear from baiters (hundreds if not thousands by now) is "If I dont take them out, someone else will".
They just want on flywaters as always, SRC or PFBC doesnt matter. To the point that they start poaching. Seems to accelerate at the start of hunting seasons that I've seen. Not my enemies, I was what they are. But that doesn't make them my allies. I only can hope they will develop as I did and time to time offer a nudge to the flyrod section. Every once in awhile I get one to buy one and the rest is usually history. Always makes me feel good to turn a man onto flyfishing.
I once caught 172 trout on corn and minnows and the fellow I was with caught 270 something out of the Perkiomen near Palm Hill bridge.

Posted on: 2007/6/24 10:00
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Re: Bait fishing on the Little J

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thats alot of trout!

all i can say to the bait fishin lurkers on this site is read this please!

right bait hooks

Posted on: 2007/6/24 21:12
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Re: Bait fishing on the Little J

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That day was a show down of sorts. There was one other kid in my town that I was told could catch more than me. We met and both took off school on an overcast/rainy day and had at it. Sure enough the stocking truck showed up that day. They only posted what week back then. At 172 trout, you could imagine how far my jaw dropped when he gave me his total before I conceded defeat.
I would like GPS coordinates to where you caught that new brookie in your picture Sal.

Posted on: 2007/6/25 7:59
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Re: Bait fishing on the Little J

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That beats my bait record of 54. Damn. My record also was set during a competition while skipping school... I believe it was 8th grade.

Posted on: 2007/6/25 9:06


Re: Bait fishing on the Little J

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The LJRA stance is a good one and I can only pray that it comes to fruition some day.
I've seen tons of bait fishermen on the LJR. It just isn't necessary. The state stocks hundreds of thousands of adult fish every year in waters that are meant for put and take. This is a unique cold water flow that can sustain trout year-round. It just isn't necessary b/c I've seen the fatalities related to bait fishing. It is fact.

Posted on: 2007/6/26 11:45


Re: Bait fishing on the Little J

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My first time fishing the little J was about 10 years ago and I am sorry to say I was bait fishing. It was early spring and the water levels were great. I don't know how many I caught that day but I stopped counting at 25. My estimate would be about 70, all I know is my back hurt the next day. 100 trout in a day, very possible under the right conditions.

Posted on: 2007/6/26 12:37
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