Asking for help

R

Rbull

New member
Joined
Dec 27, 2006
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22
Good Morning, I need help. I'll just get started, I'm relativly new but I've been reading this site for a few months now. My problem is a lack of understanding about the diffrent flies and nymphs etc. I go fishing about every chance I get. Even yesterday in 22 degree weather. I didn't catch a thing. I know you can catch trout in the winter I have fished for trout all year with spinner gear (sorry, I've seen the light though, as of Jan. 1st I will only be fly fishing unless I take my 6yr old son with me. That being said I am trying to put in my dues and earn the right to catch fish on a fly rod. I have decent gear, Cabelas LST 7.5' and so forth. I live in S. Chester county, and i like to fish small streams and creeks, White clay, Octorara, and several small streams. Anyway I'm rambling, back to my problem. I am hoping some kind person and/or persons could help sort out the flies and there uses, and times to use, and where to use i.e. riffles,runs etc. I have read lots of books which has added to the confusion, too much info crowds my head. I know this would be a large task but maybe just the basics. I know this would help more than just me, I cant be the only one who would benifit from this. I hope you don't think this is cheating either, as I intend to put in my time on the streams as well. I guess this also turned into an introduction Hello I'm new here. Thanking all in advance.
 
One more thing I wanted to mention about myself, Catch and release only, wouln't be allowed to bring home anyway (wife), plus I don't really like it cooked in oven or pan. Did keep a walleye once though.
 
First of all, don't EVER apologize for using gear other than what we talk about here.

Now.....I've taught a good number of people the finer art of fly fishing. The one single book that has been rendered as being the most helpful was a book called Hatches. Go to your library and see if you can get it on loan.

There are many other books out there, and I'm sure others will chime in with ideas.
 
Hello and welcome aboard.

I'm not a big believer in dues. I don't think you need to worry about that, or justifying your "right" to fly fish. Just head out and have some fun. Hopefully it will be fun.

As far as catching fish in winter. It can be done, but it's not easy. The trout are lethargic with the cold and won't move far to take a fly. You have to hit them right on the nose, and even then they don't have to take. So don't feel bad about getting skunked on a cold winter day. Also, if you do want to fish in the winter, try a day when there is a warming trend. This can get the trout moving a little better. Or you can try a spring creek, which run at a consistant temperature year-round.

Your question about flies could take a long time to answer. There's whole philosophies of fly selection and way too many patterns out there. Some patterns exist only because a company came out with a new material and a tier wrote an article about how to use it.

I generally use what I would call "attractors". Attractors have features that the trout key in on. I like attractors because they don't mimic any one hatch very well, but they could be a few different bugs. A small adams for instance could be any of several small, dark mayflies or a midge or even a few other different things. Attractors can be dry flies, nymphs (bouncing on the bottom of the stream) or wet flies (somewhere between the bottom of the stream and it's surface). I consider some streamers to be attractors as well. Some of my favorites:
Dry - Royal Wulffs, adams, bivisibles, The Usual
Wet - Patridge and Orange, Hare's Ear wet
Nymph - Pheasant tail, Hare's ear, zug bug
Streamers - Wooley buggers

You can fish them in the riffles or in pools. It all depends on where you see the fish feeding. Of course knowing what hatches are active may help you know where to look for feeding activity. Different bugs will live in different habitat and hatch or lay eggs in different habitats.

You can also carry flies that "match the hatch". These can likewise be dries, wets or nymphs. Knowing what is hatching (by consulting a hatch chart) in essential if you intend to mimic hatches exactly. Having a perfectly tied white cahill won't help you much right now. The nymph won't be terribly active (compared to Little Black Stoneflies) right now, and the dry won't be on the water for months. That's not to say you won't catch anything on it, but you'd probably catch more with a little black stonefly right now.

Terrestrials are a "hatch" you can match also. But they are active over so much of the year that they are almost attractors. You can fish ants year round for instance. And you can fish them as dries, or wets. Definately carry ants in a few sizes 14, 16 & 18 in a black and orange. Beetles, and hoppers are extremely effective when they are active near trout streams too.
 
I am trying to put myself in your shoes of just starting out and trying to know what flies to use. It wasn't that long ago for me. Pardon the length of my post. You may find it helpful; I hope some of it is useful. Getting a good book from the library is a good idea too.

Here goes:

I think knowing basic things about trout food would help. Think of three basic food types:

1. baitfish
2. aquatic insects
3. terrestrial insects

Baitfish - always present/available; this is your minnow and there are many types. Streamers immitate these well. Think wooly bugger in black, brown green/olive and white. Once again, thousands of other immitations, but the wooly bugger is easy to find in stores, easy to tie and simple to fish. Any time of year, any time of day, trout will feed opportunistically on a baitfish

Aquatic Insects (the heart and soul of flyfishing for many of us). These are your nymphs, wet flies, soft hackles, emergers and dry flies. Nymphs are always available to trout. The pheasant tail and hare's ear pattern can imitate any nymph by varying size and color. There are numerous variations and pattern, leave that for down the road. Regardless of what is hatching and active, any nymph can catch a fish at any time.

The nymph is like a small crawling bug, but it lives underwater. It is the underwater stage of the mayfly and stonefly type of aquatic bug. When the adult insect mates, it drops eggs in the water, which shortly "hatch" into a nymph. (This isn't the "hatch" most speak of when talking fly fishing). The nymph lives among and under the streambed rocks, sticks and debris. If you have access to streams with good bug life, find a shallow riffle and look for flat rocks that are not imbedded in the bottom. If the rock is leaning upward with the high side downstream, lift it carefully and turn it over and look close-- with any luck, you will see a few nymphs. Nymph can also swim, but most crawl and the swimmer stay close to the bottom unless they are emerging (more on that later). Occasionally, while moving about, the nymph loses its grip and becomes "currentborne." Trout will search for nymphs but mostly, they lie in wait for these "currentborne" pieces of food.

The caddis has a slightly different life-cycle from the mayfly and stonefly, but there is a pupae stage where the caddis is a tiny worm-like creature. The trusty maggot, which in baitfishing circles attracts high esteem is about the size and shape of the caddis pupae. They will also become "currentborne" and fish feed on them like they do nymphs.


The adult stage of the mayfly, caddis and stonefly are immitated by your standard "dry flies." While a trout may take a dry flie immitation at any time, they are most likely to take it when the "emerging" or "emerged" adults are actually on the water. Many fly anglers will not even bother with a dry fly unless a "hatch" (actually the emergence of the nymph to the winged adult) is underway, or at least has been underway recently.

Terrestrials - land worms, ants, beetles, spiders, cricket, grasshoppers. When they are active on land, they often find their way into the water, mostly by accident. When they do, trout will gobble them up. They are mainly a topwater pattern, though some can be effective when "drowned." The main time for these is summer and fall, so I'll leave that topic now.

Enough science? I think so. What you really want to know is where and when to fish them. I will keep things simple. Trout like to sit in an area where they don't spend energy to stay put. Behind rocks, directly in front of rocks, in troughs or depressions in the stream bottom, in slow pools. They take up a position and this is called a "lie." Often you will hear talk of a "feeding lie." When most of the food is coming from underwater (nymphs, pupae, baitfish), they will be looking into the current for approaching food. They let the food come to them, and don't often move far to chase it.

When they are feeding on bugs on the surface, they will find a lie that lets them watch the surface in front of them for floating food (you will hear people say "the trout were looking up.") Quite often, when trout are actively feeding, you will actually spot them in their feeding lie and can see them move slightly to grab drifting food. When they are actively taking food of the surface, you will see them "rise" to the surface and sip, slash or attack the food.

Bringing it all together. Nymphs rarely reside in deep pools. However, when they are in the current, they are carried into pools, so you can fish nymphs in pools. However, nymphs are most effective in riffles, pocket water and faster runs or at the head of pools. Drift your nymphs around rocks and through and along current seems. Dry flies can effective in these same areas, but will also work in pools more so than will the nymphs. Baitfish can be fished anywhere as well.

That's enough to think about I am sure. Other posters may disagree with some of what I've said. Take it all in. I am a hacker, for the most part, but what I've told you here is a combination of things I've read and things I've experienced on the streams. Good luck in the sport. Getting one or two fish should be a great day for you at this stage, though I hope it will be much better very soon. In this part of the year, one or two fish is a great day for almost any of us, except the most expert or impatient.
 
The streams you mentioned probably have very few trout in them right now. Things should pick up once they get their spring stocking. And then you can catch them on the standard, popular patterns.

Don't get hung up on all that exact, matching the hatch stuff when you're starting out. You can catch loads of trout on the more general, standard patterns.
 
After you do all that..find yourself a good bluegill pond. Use a small popper or sponge spider and right before trout season starts, go catch a bunch of them and see how much fun it is. Then you can go back to the seriousness of catching trout. Dude, relax its a sport. its supposed to be fun. I don't know anyone on here who will shun you because you are new. They can be very helpful and knowledgeable. Welcome, and have fun.
 
Padraic and JackM gave you very good advice and Troutbert is likely correct about the relative lack of fish this time of year. If you're unsure of what various fly patters look like, a visit to a local fly shop will give you a chance to see 'em. I'll also second Festus' opinion on tackle - there's nothing wrong with spin fishing. Keep asking questions here and you'll continue to get experienced advice and, along the way, probably connect with some folks who will take you out with them. I fish the Cumberland Valley streams (Yellow Breeches, Letort, Falling Springs etc) and local waters in Adams County. The Cumberland Valley streams fish fairly well in the winter. If you're heading out this way send me a PM and perhaps I can get out with you.
Best,
Dave
 
check the fly shop link on this site. many shops have some beginner classes coming up. might be able to find some free ones. also check the pa trout web site, and check the local TU chapters web sites, i know many of them offer fly fishing/casting programs for beginners.

john
 
Thanks for helping me out. Perhaps in a few years when this question is asked again by a new person I'll be able to answer thier question as good as mine was answered. You always feel more welcome after you get past that first post. Thanks again
 
I think you got a lot of good information. Here is a link where you can get a quick synopsis of the different kinds of insects along with some pictures of the naturals and flies, which might be helpful. Scroll about halfway down the page and click on the insect types under the heading "The Insects!"
http://www.flyanglersonline.com/begin/101/

There are also some other good articles there if you want more information. Just look around the different links. Check out "The 10 Best Nymphs" Dry Flies, etc.

It sounds like you are suffering from a bit of information overload at this point. As far as flies go, start out simple with a few of the basic flies. Padraic gave you a good list. I think the only flies I would add would be an elk hair caddis dry fly, and a small griffiths gnat for midge dries. And maybe a caddis larva or pupa fished like a nymph. These flies will usually work, but if you want to match the hatches at your local streams you can ask at a local fly shop for the flies to expect at different times of the year. This time of year until spring a woolly bugger fished deep and slow may be the best bet.
 
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