Pennsylvania Fly Fishing - Grannom [Forums - Hatch and Entomology Forum]

Grannom

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	Grannom	#1
Joined: 2006/10/18 15:46 From Patterson twp, Pa (Beaver Falls) Posts: 6004	Found on Neshannock Creek 3/30/12. Found the [cranefly Larvae] on my wading shoe on the way out. Posted on: 2012/3/30 20:51 Edited by Maurice on 2012/4/4 20:09:59
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	Re: Grannom	#2
Joined: 2007/12/23 14:18 From Richfield, PA Posts: 268	Pretty sure that "pupa" is a cranefly larvae. AKA-Walts Worm. Just a guess. Posted on: 2012/3/30 21:35
Joined: 2007/12/23 14:18 From Richfield, PA Posts: 268	_________________ Ephesians 4:32-"Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you" http://www.paundercurrent.com/ http://paundercurrent.blogspot.com/

	Re: Grannom	#3
Joined: 2006/10/18 15:46 From Patterson twp, Pa (Beaver Falls) Posts: 6004	a "walts worm" is a fly pattern, not actually representing any specific bug. That pupa in the picture is about a size 12-14. Cranefly larvae are massive compared to that. It's a caddis, that much is for sure. Check out the crane fly larvae thread a few down to see how big they truly are. Posted on: 2012/3/30 23:21
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	Re: Grannom	#4
Joined: 2006/9/9 11:22 From New Castle, PA Posts: 1359	Quote: ryguyfi wrote: a "walts worm" is a fly pattern, not actually representing any specific bug. That pupa in the picture is about a size 12-14. Cranefly larvae are massive compared to that. It's a caddis, that much is for sure. Check out the crane fly larvae thread a few down to see how big they truly are. Some cranefly larva are massive. Many are not. Adult craneflies in about #18 and tan, cream, and yellow in color are not uncommon on Neshannock. Their larve, while larger than the adult, are not outrageously huge. Also, you can tell that is not a caddis pupa as there are no distinct, legs, wings, eyes, etc. All of which would be visible on a caddis. Additionally, it lacks the distinct legs of a caddis larva. So it is not a caddis IMO. Here is a caddis pupa: FWIW, I often fish a cranefly pattern that looks like almost exactly lime the critter in you hand. Not just on Neshannock but almost everywhere I fish. Whether the fish take it as a cranefly or as a caddis larve, I don't know, but it works well. Posted on: 2012/3/31 4:32
Joined: 2006/9/9 11:22 From New Castle, PA Posts: 1359

	Re: Grannom	#5
Joined: 2006/10/2 10:08 From Westmoreland County (near fairgrounds) Posts: 3559	Thanks for posting the adult Ryan. I tried to photograph one Thursday, but I couldn't get them to hold still and all the photos were blurry. Posted on: 2012/3/31 6:48
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	Re: Grannom	#6
Joined: 2006/10/18 15:46 From Patterson twp, Pa (Beaver Falls) Posts: 6004	looks like I could have been mistaken... we'll see once ent expert sandfly chimes in. Posted on: 2012/3/31 8:19
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	Re: Grannom	#7
Joined: 2006/11/2 8:50 Posts: 4889	The photo posted was definitely a cranefly larva. The photo that someone posted of a caddis pupae, that's what caddis pupae look like. If you want to see one, open up a grannom case (if they haven't all hatched out yet on your stream). The ones that haven't hatched yet, are now in the pupae stage. If you open up one of the cases earlier in the season, they would still be in the larva stage. Probably TroutNut.com or some other site has a photo of a Grannom case. They are very distinctive. And streams that have good Grannom hatches have loads of these cases on the rocks. It's kind of hard to open the case without turning the bug inside to mush. The best way I found is to carefully cut the case open with your flytying scissors. Posted on: 2012/3/31 8:42
Joined: 2006/11/2 8:50 Posts: 4889

	Re: Grannom	#8
Joined: 2008/1/21 13:28 From South Central PA Posts: 756	Very pleased to see grannoms being mentioned somewhere other than central PA. Your enthusiasm for this hatch is infectious in a good way. Posted on: 2012/3/31 8:53
Joined: 2008/1/21 13:28 From South Central PA Posts: 756

	Re: Grannom	#9
Joined: 2006/10/18 15:46 From Patterson twp, Pa (Beaver Falls) Posts: 6004	It's the unofficial start to the trout season for me. Luckily my wife let me go out with an 9 day old baby at home... Posted on: 2012/3/31 10:11
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	Re: Grannom	#10
Moderator Joined: 2006/9/11 8:26 From Chester County Posts: 7729	Quote: troutbert wrote: The photo posted was definitely a cranefly larva. The photo that someone posted of a caddis pupae, that's what caddis pupae look like. If you want to see one, open up a grannom case (if they haven't all hatched out yet on your stream). The ones that haven't hatched yet, are now in the pupae stage. If you open up one of the cases earlier in the season, they would still be in the larva stage. Probably TroutNut.com or some other site has a photo of a Grannom case. They are very distinctive. And streams that have good Grannom hatches have loads of these cases on the rocks. It's kind of hard to open the case without turning the bug inside to mush. The best way I found is to carefully cut the case open with your flytying scissors. pics of above from Troutnut - http://www.troutnut.com/specimen/673 Attach file: Grannom Case.jpg (67.27 KB) Pupa inside.jpg (71.52 KB) Pupa.jpg (72.37 KB) Posted on: 2012/4/1 6:35

	Re: Grannom	#11
Joined: 2011/4/29 10:35 From Boiling Springs, PA Posts: 28	The second picture is a cranefly larva. Posted on: 2012/4/1 17:33

	Re: Grannom	#12
Joined: 2006/10/18 15:46 From Patterson twp, Pa (Beaver Falls) Posts: 6004	In the interests of this forum, you can either remove the 2nd picture, or post it in the crane fly post. Posted on: 2012/4/2 15:19
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	Re: Grannom	#13
Joined: 2006/11/2 8:50 Posts: 4889	What size do you all tie your Grannoms (the dark variety)? Some books say size 12. I think that is WAY too big. The size does seem to vary somewhat from place to place. And I've tied and fished them in both 14s and 16s. But I'm beginning to lean more towards the 16s. I think it's closer the actual size of the bugs, and I've had better success with the 16s, especially on streams with a lot of fishing pressure. Posted on: 2012/4/6 13:19
Joined: 2006/11/2 8:50 Posts: 4889

	Re: Grannom	#14
Joined: 2006/10/18 15:46 From Patterson twp, Pa (Beaver Falls) Posts: 6004	I held my 14 up to a natural at Neshannock last Friday and it was MAYBE a hair too short. 16 is too small IMO. I think I have a few 12's in my box, but pretty much fish 14's. I think once the fish get keyed in on the naturals, especially with a hatch of this proportion, then they start getting picky. Too large is an instant turn off, just right is always good, but sometimes a size too small will work just fine too. Posted on: 2012/4/6 14:47
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