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Re: Tippet twist

Joined:
2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
Posts: 13362
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I use the old fashion nail knot for the line to leader connection, using either a nail or often I tear apart a pen and use the tube. I do struggle with it and may play with HA's method.

That said, I have NEVER had to do a nail knot streamside, and don't carry a tool. I make 2 or 3 a year, sitting in my house. And despite being a pain, it doesn't slow me down any, so I never considered it a "problem". I use blood knots for all leader and tippet knots, which I can do quickly streamside.

Posted on: 2013/5/31 10:49


Re: Tippet twist

Joined:
2009/1/7 12:19
From Glenmoore PA
Posts: 548
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For thos of you who use nail knots. How do you switch leaders while fishing. I have a nymph leader and dry leader and I change them as I need too. Does your first section of mono have a loop?

Posted on: 2013/5/31 12:04


Re: Tippet twist

Joined:
2012/3/14 6:23
From Lancaster
Posts: 940
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I use a mono loop connector about 5 or 6 inches long. Perfection loop on one end to attach to the leader and the other end nail knotted to the fly line. I can usually get a whole season out of one of these connectors.

Posted on: 2013/5/31 12:12


Re: Tippet twist

Joined:
2011/5/26 10:12
From Dauphin PA
Posts: 2765
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Nail knot tool = awesome. Love it, easy to use.

Line / leader connection for me....braided loop (aka Chinese finger trap). Cut the length down, work it onto line and secure with 5 nail knots of fluro. Never ha one come loose, easy to change leaders and floats nicely.

As mentioned by others, tippet that's too light is typically the issue. There are times or some specific patterns that do like to twist your tippet. I'd go to heavier tippet first. That doesn't work, get rid of that fly. When your leader gets all twisted up, your first step should be to cut off the tippet up past where the twisting starts. Example: fly on 6x that twisted your leader. You will have to remove the 6x section, probably have to remove the 5x and maybe even the 4x. Once it gets jacked up, it's ruined. You can't straighten it back out.

Posted on: 2013/5/31 23:50
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Re: Tippet twist

Joined:
2013/1/15 12:02
From Pipersville Pa.
Posts: 547
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A nail knot is fairly easy to tie. I use a fly tying bobbin, Works very well. Just wrap the knot over the stem. Push the tag end through. Slide it off and tighten. Vary simple that way. No need for a special tool. I then use a short pc. of mono with a loop. Been doing it that way for as long as I can remember. As far as twist I agree usually the fly or too light of a tippet or too soft of a tippet. Just my 2cents.

GenCon

Posted on: 2013/6/1 8:12


Re: Tippet twist

Joined:
2006/9/21 0:02
From Pittsburgh
Posts: 4231
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The OP didn't say what size fly and tippet he was using, but I would also guess that using tippet that was too light for the fly would be the prime suspect for his problem.
I generally try to not go any lighter than 5x for most of my fishing
I will use 6x at times when the water gets very low and clear.
7x gets used occasionally for tricos and very tiny flies

Posted on: 2013/6/1 9:49


Re: Tippet twist

Joined:
2011/5/26 10:12
From Dauphin PA
Posts: 2765
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Never go less than 6x and I only go there 4-5 times a year.

Posted on: 2013/6/1 9:58
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Re: Tippet twist
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/9 19:16
From Dallastown, PA
Posts: 6987
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Well nobody said it yet so here goes....the general tippet to fly size relationship is 2.5x. Take the fly you are using and divide the hook size by 2.5. this is the minimum tippet size recommended.

For instance;

#22 = 9x

#18 = 7x

#16 = 6x

#14 = 5x

#12 = 5x

#10 = 4x

#8 = 3x

Of course anglers are going to push the envelope to fool spooky trout often times fooling themselves in the process.

And yeah is you tie on a #14 three hackle palmered cutwing it might twist your 5x so make adjustment accordingly.

But generally it is the tippet being too supple/fine for the fly that is the culprit.

I used to have a horrible time with my wolly buggers twisting my 5x tippet until I did two things....moved up to 4x and put a few less turns of hackle on the body. I think palmering of hackel acts as a screw whether you have big wings on the fly or not. In fact the wings may help to stop the rotation in the air IMHO.

Also I fished the entire jamboree with no finer than 4x and fished flies up to #18. Tough to thread those eyes but the fish didn't mind the tippet. Of course the water was a little heavy that weekend.


Posted on: 2013/6/1 13:39
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Re: Tippet twist
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/9 9:29
From Monessen, PA
Posts: 22149
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The 3 stages of fly fishing evolution:

Stage 1-- Mostly 6X
Stage 2-- Mostly 5X
Stage 3-- Mostly 4X

Posted on: 2013/6/1 14:38
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Re: Tippet twist

Joined:
2007/3/24 2:29
From Luzerne County, PA
Posts: 361
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I was using 5x tippet with a size 12 fly. I want to thank everyone again for the input. On the next outing I got rid of the fly, cut back slightly off the 9 foot leader so I basically had aprox. 8 foot of leader and 10-inches of tippet. Had no trouble on Friday, no twist and flies turned over nicely.

I'm doing well drifting dries for stockies on the Lehigh, they don't seem to mind my shorter leader.

I'm down to 3 possible causes, possibly because the end of my leader was thinner than my 5x tippet and my less than stellar casting skills. Or the fly that caused the problem, though I didn't notice anything unusual about the fly. Or, fishing in some stronger than usual current that day along with some wind.

My gut feeling is that the thin end of my 5x leader had a thinner diameter than my 5x tippet. I know I saved the leader package cuz I save old leader butts for susky smallmouth fishing and I slid the old leader into that package, but for the life of me I can't find it right now.

Posted on: 2013/6/2 0:03


Re: Tippet twist

Joined:
2006/9/11 13:33
From Lehigh Valley
Posts: 3292
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Something else that might be causing tippet twist is that your fly line is twisted.

An easy way to correct this is to cut your fly off and let the fly line dangle downstream in the current. Let the whole line out when you do this, and give it time to untwist, then reel it back in while guiding it on the reel so it lays nicely.

It's a long shot, but it might help...

Posted on: 2013/6/2 16:29
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Re: Tippet twist

Joined:
2010/1/2 15:17
From PA and NH
Posts: 713
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Ed nailed it with the Borger 's video, no need for anything else, except maybe coating the junction of the knots to prevent water from soaking into the wounded flyline, some people use rubber cement and color it to act as an indicator. As far as the twist, it also occurs with a subsurface pattern tat is prone to spinning, say a bent nymph or articulated type.

Posted on: 2013/6/2 19:25


Re: Tippet twist

Joined:
2009/12/3 14:56
From Cato, NY
Posts: 972
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Ive been tying the nail-less nail knot for years without failure. I do coat the knot with UV knot sense to make an extra smooth connection so it doesn't get caught up in the guides. Once you try this knot you will never do a nail knot again with the tool. It's so easy it's ridiculous.

As far as tippet twisting I agree with the other posters about too small tippet with a larger fly. This has happened to me in my early days fly fishing a big spinner with too small of a tippet.

I would recommend the OP drop a tippet size but extend the length of the tippet. I really do think most people don't realize if you extend your tippet length you get such a better drag free drift. never start a day's fishing without 3 feet of tippet length.

Posted on: 2013/6/3 13:54


Re: Tippet twist

Joined:
2011/5/26 10:12
From Dauphin PA
Posts: 2765
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I thought I was in the minority that fished longer tippet / leaders. On smaller water I don't get all that worried about it...24" of tippet maybe. When fishin bigger water (especially with smaller flies) my leader might be 18-20'. I agree with Jason, 3-4' of tippet is pretty standard.

Posted on: 2013/6/3 16:40
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Re: Tippet twist

Joined:
2009/12/3 14:56
From Cato, NY
Posts: 972
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Yeah Andy most leader formulas you see today only have anywhere from 12 to 18" of tippet. after a couple fly changes it way too short. A few years ago I read Ed Engle's book fishing small flies and started using his recommended 16' George Anderson leader and haven't looked back. A super heavy butt section and 3 foot tippet = money on the D during small fly season. I don't use this leader early in the year for the bigger flies but it doesn't matter what dry fly leader i'm using i have 3 to 4 feet of tippet to start.

Posted on: 2013/6/4 10:50



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