Rod building questions

[tabasco_joe]

I am just about finished building my first rod, an 8' graphite 4 weight. I have two questions:

1. Can general purpose thermal glue from a common glue gun be used for tips? Has anyone used the Flexcoat thermal tip glue in a glue gun? I prefer to control the temperatures and don't like the open flame approach. (I work in my wood shop so an open flame is not something I like to take a chance with.)

2. With this rod it was recommended to use 3 #1 guides then 3 #2 guides from the top down. (Followed by large ones below.) It seems that line flow would be enhanced if I upsized some of the guides, maybe use a 3 then four 2s followed by 2 1s. Is it just a matter of weight or are there other reasons to specifically use so many 1s and 2s towards the top?

 

[afishinado]

T-Joe,

I caught the rod building bug too, not that long ago, much to my wife’s dismay!

1. Two ways to go on the tip top to apply the tip top. You can use the Flex coat stick if you already bought it. I use a soldering iron to melt it – no flame. Melt the end of the glue stick with a soldering iron on apply a little onto a toothpick or needle. Heat the tip top with the soldering iron and push some adhesive into the tip top. Melt a little more and apply the adhesive to the rod tip also. Less is more – you don’t need much. If it oozes out of the tip top onto the rod when you push it in, clean it with a cloth while it’s hot. A lot of guys use 5 minute epoxy for tip tops instead of the FC adhesive.

2. I would stick to the recommended size for the snake guides. The extra weight for the larger guides would change the action of the rod (probably make it slower). Also, the larger guides might make the line sloppy going through the guides and actually hurt the rod’s shooting ability.

Attached is a guide on spacing and guide size for rods as a reference. Use the manufacture’s specs. They test the flex of the rod for guide spacing.

http://www.jsflyfishing.com/mas_assets/pdf/guides.pdf



Also here are two good forums frequented by rod building geeks. A lot of pro builders post on the first one and you can learn a lot or ask any question.

http://www.rodbuilding.org/list.php?2

http://www.rodbuildingforum.com/



Be advised – the hobby can be as addicting as fly fishing and fly tying – and expensive too! Good luck with your rod. Post pics when its done.

 

[Padraic]

Tabasco_joe,

As for the glue questions... I believe you can use normal hot glue, but I don't know for sure. I'd sort of like to have a glue with a touch of flex to it. Although under the tip top, the blank is not going to flex much.

I oversized the guides on a 6wt I built, and I feel like it shoots line very well as a result. I think I got the idea from a Lefty Kreh article. Definately increase the size of the stripping guide! You'll really like the way line feeds into the guides if you do that.

 

[INF4EVA]

forget hot glue use epoxy

 

[SonOfMartin]

Epoxy is the only way to go with the tip. Voice of experience after watching mine fly off doing a waggle test in the yard. Never did find that one.

 

[tabasco_joe]

I used to do a lot of hunting, including muzzleloading. Since I am left handed I ended up making my own. My wife used to complain why I needed more than one. I told her we hadn't had an Indian attack since I started building em. I bought a number of blanks last year at a closeout. Then got bronchitis that hung on for months. I couldn't work in my shop during that time due to the saw dust. I'm going to make up for lost time this winter.

I will probably build one with Flexcoat on the tip and another with epoxy. Then decide what I like moving forward.

The guide question comes from my use of overlining the rod in certain situations. I own 3, 4, and 5 weight rods with the same reel models on them. Sometimes when using the 3 or 4 weight on mountain streams I go up a line weight. This helps my fast action rods load better with shorter line out. I've noticed on the 3 weight that I have some line drag on the guides when I use 4 weight line. This is what led to the question. Anyway my first blanks cost $20 each so it's a cheap way to experiment.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[jaybo41]

I'm no expert on rod building by any means, but I recently replaced a handle and reel seat. I used epoxy to hold the handle and the reel seat in place. The one I used had 2 tubes and rated for 2 tons of weight. I think mine was a 7 minute dry time, but if you can find it, you may want more time. I posted a question on another forum and several people recommended that I use this type of epoxy for my project. It worked out very well.

 

[abbrod]

As has already been stated....5 minutes Devcon epoxy is the only way to go. Here is why. No heat to install, does not softner in a hot car, will never come off during normal use and the bond can be broken with the direct flame of a lighter for 5-10 seconds if you have to get it off to replace.

As for the guides.... what ever the smallest guide you will be using is, use as many of them as possible. This is a little unconventional but why add the extra weight to the rod, especially the tip? If the line doesn't pass through a guide well you should not be using it at all. Using only two #1 guides instead 3 or 4 because the line moves though them better ..why use a #1 at all? If the line passes through a #2 guide pretty well, why have 3 #3's before it? Get the line down as quickly as possible and use the smallest all the way out to the tip. In your example of a 8' 4wt rod using snake style guides I would start with a #12 stripper, 1 #4, 1 #3, and 6 #2s.

Increased weight does not change the action of the rod as has been stated previously. It makes the rod less effecient. The action is defined by how the rod flexes under load (the shape of the arc created) which cannot be changed. Imagine waving a peice of uncooked spaghetti with no weight attached to it. It will be very responsive to your motion but will quickly recover to its original position. Now imagine placing a wad of chewing gum on the end of the same spaghetti. It will not return to its original position nearly as quickly. If you change directions too quickly it will break. But the spaghetti itself was never changed. We cannot change the way a blank flexes but can reduce it's effeciency greatly by adding weight. This effect is magnified towards the tip section as it is a lever and even small increases in weight will limit the rods ability to load/unload with power.

Hope this helps.

 

[tabasco_joe]

Has anyone tired supper glue for rod tips?

 

[JackM]

tabasco_joe wrote:
Has anyone tired supper glue for rod tips?

t_j, I think you want to be able to remove the tiptop down the line should it need replaced or repaired. I was going to speak out against epoxy for this reason until someone stated that it can be heated and removed. When I built my first rod years ago, I bought his stick of tip glue about the size of a small pack of gum and it looks like it could last the rest of my life. You put a flame to the end it gets hot and melts; put it on the top of the blank and slide the tiptop on and postion. Within seconds, it has cooled and hardened. If you need to adjust its position, a bit of heat, a slight adjustment and you're done.

 

To; Tabasco_ Joe "Has anyone used Super Glue, for a rod tip?"
Yes, VERY SORRY to report, but I di once, when finishing up a rod I'd built and was "mainly just curious" to see how something like "waterproof Zap-a-Gap" would work on a tip guide.
What I found out, was............. "It's brittle when dried and I noticed the slight "over flow", around the edge of the steel guide's base, easily cracked and chipped right off, with a thumbnail.
I love Zap-a-Gap for a million uses, but NOT when working around non-porous materials. With only two fingers I was able to twist off the tip guide, even after it had set to cure for 6 hours.
I wouldn't personally recommend it for a tip guide.
On the rods I've built, I've stuck with the above mentioned "heat up-glue stick", which has never once, failed me. The rest of my rods are built using only Devcon Epoxy.

 

[tabasco_joe]

I tried the Flexcoat tip adhesive today and was not impressed. So I cleaned everything up and used expoy. I'm a convert. On this rod I'm using U40 urethane coating. Should be done by Sunday, maybe in time to try it on the Saucon or LL. Wrapping the top couple guides sure is a dexterity test.