Orvis rods

[fly_N_ice]

I was recently the high bidder on an Orvis TLS Power Matrix 8’6” 4pc. MID 7.0 5wt. rod. When I got home I noticed the pieces didn’t seem to “fit” together properly – there appears to be a half inch gap between all pieces. When I contacted the shop owner who donated the rod, he said that this is something that Orvis does, and that over time the pieces will wear and come together to “look” right. I have fished this rod and didn’t notice anything different from my other rods other than the “looks”.

Has anyone else experienced this with their Orvis rods?

Hank

 

[Rbull]

I to have an Orvis rod, and mine is the same way. Orvis had a name for this type of connection, but I was so ready to fish the rod I stopped listening and just shook my head when the salesman spoke, so I didn't catch what its called. My rod has started to fit a little further down the connections over time. Anyway no problems or complaints.

 

[Padraic]

It seems more rod makers are moving to these types of ferrules. I think Scott developed it first. The idea is that the ferrules get tighter as they wear. Traditional ferrules get looser over time, which can ruin the rod. Good idea considering many of these high-end rods carry lifetime warrantees.

 

[Bamboozle]

fly:

SOME of the Orvis rods use a variation of a sleeve-over ferrule. On these sleeve-over variations; the male portion is tapered straighter and doesn't fit all the way into the female ferrule. The alignment dots will show a gap that is built in to accommodate wear. They look like spigot ferrules but they differ in one important way; the male portion ISN'T a separate piece. Also the male portion on a modified sleeve-over ferrule will in most cases have the same high gloss finish as the rest of the blank. True spigots will usually have an unfinished graphite plug as the male portion.

The modified sleeve-over ferrules differ from regular sleeve-over ferrules like you find on lots of rods where the sections seem to fit all the way. All sleeve-over ferrules will wear to the point of being useless although if you take care of them by waxing and keeping them clean; you'll probably never wear them out.

Spigot ferrules are made by inserting a separate piece of graphite into one blank to make the male ferrule. When done correctly, the male ferrule plug is then custom fitted to the female portion and the gap is usually 1/2" or less which is why you don't see them on all rods; they are more costly and time consuming to fabricate and fit. Some less expensive rods also use spigots but many of those are not custom fitted so you will see very large gaps between sections and the male plugs are a lot longer.

Spigot ferrules also will have a gap between sections but the big difference between true spigots and the modified sleeve-over ferrules is: a worn male spigot CAN be replaced. So, IF they ever wear out; you don't have to trash the rod.

Many rod builders feel that true spigots offer a smoother transition between sections and are lighter. I don't know if that's true or not but most of my rods have them and I like them a lot.

Hope this helps!

 

[Wulff-Man]

I bought a Wright & McGill rod for my wife a few years ago which has what they call "internal ferrules." Your description sounds the same. When I first got the rod I tried to force the sections together so they would meet, and tried twisting them while joining them like I usually do. When that didn't work and I almost couldn't get them apart, I contacted W&M, and was told that this is the way they are supposed to join (with a gap), and that I should never twist them or try to force them. Just line up the dots and push them straight together. They are not supposed to eventually meet up, as far as I know. They work great and don't come apart. As Bamboozle said, I believe these are more expensive to manufacture and are supposed to be better for the rod action. Here's what W&M says about them:

"Each section flows to the next with internal ferrules that allow for a continuous taper from the butt section all the way to the tip eliminating dead spots, creating a perfect power curve and enhancing performance. To make assembly easier and quicker, small alignment dots are used for positioning."

 

[Bamboozle]

Wulff:

Most manufacturers of rods with spigot or "internal" ferrules will tell you that when the gap is LESS than 1/8"; it's time for replacement. I haven't got there yet; hopefully never will. I just keep them clean by wiping them off after fishing.

SOME manufacturers; most notably Winston will tell you NOT to wax spigots because the wax will attract grit and cause premature wear which is more critical on a spigot because they are custom fitted. If you do wax them; I have been told by that same company that complete removal of the wax is necessary periodically which to me ain't worth the aggravation. For that reason I don't wax my spigots although I know plenty of guys who do. I have had NO issues with UN-WAXED spigot ferrules.

On the other hand; most manufacturers DO recommend waxing sleeve-over ferrules which I do on the rods I own with them and I would definitely wax the ferrules on a modified sleeve-over like the Orvis.

In my whole fishing life I have only seen one graphite rod where the graphite ferrules wore out. That was a sleeve-over ferrule on a Fenwick HMG rod I sold to a friend. He never waxed or wiped off the ferrules and they wore out to the point the rod wouldn't stay together.

BTW how is that Wright & McGill rod? I saw some of their new branded stuff at the Yellow Breeches shop and it looked nice, very classy looking.

 

[troutbert]

I won a Winston WT rod at a TU banquet this spring and noticed the same thing. But there was a printed explanation with the rod saying that's the way it's supposed to be, they are made that way deliberately, and don't try to force the sections to together with excessive force.

I checked the list price of this Winston WT, and I'm afraid to use it. I've never owned such an expensive rod and I'm rough on gear and might smack it against a tree branch or wack it with a lead-eyed streamer. I haven't even cast it out on the lawn yet.

 

[Wulff-Man]

Bamboozle wrote:

BTW how is that Wright & McGill rod? I saw some of their new branded stuff at the Yellow Breeches shop and it looked nice, very classy looking.

I got my wife the Fly Girl, and she really loves it. It's a nice looking rod, especially for the price, but more importantly it has a very nice action. Whenever I use it I get the urge to go out and test cast a bunch of new rods for myself.

Thanks for the info on the ferrules. I'll tell her to keep them clean.

 

[CaptMatt]

It's supposed to be like that. Also find an old candle and rub it on the connection points of the male end. This will help the rod come together and stay together and it illuminates too much friction in assembling the rod.

 

[Bamboozle]

troutbert:

Use the WT! It was meant to be fished. Which one is it BTW?

Wulff:

I would contact Wright McGill and ask them if THEY recommend wax on their ferrules. Maybe they have a different opinion than Winston does about spigot ferrules.

I am a firm believer in getting the specific manufacturer's recommendation on care & feeding of their products. I do it with everything from rods to fly lines to waders. It's amazing how many differing opinions you can get. I figure; if I do what THEY tell me to do; if something goes wrong; I'm in the clear.

 

[fly_N_ice]

Thanks for the replies and info. All that stuff about what kind of ferrule and whether or not to wax confused me so I took Bamboozle’s advice and e-mailed Orvis. I should expect a reply in 1-2 business days. I’ll keep you posted.

Hank

 

[OhioOutdoorsman]

Yep, i think a lot of rod manufacturers are simply leaving the male ends of their blanks unfinished and putting a short wrap, finish, and alignment dot to make their rods look like a more expensive winston or scott with spigot ferruling.

FISH THAT WT, MAN! It comes with a lifetime warranty so don't sweat it.

 

[RLeeP]

>>I checked the list price of this Winston WT, and I'm afraid to use it.>>

Good thinking.... Send it to me for safe keeping. I'll make sure nothing happens to it.

I'll send you a 1983 vintage FF705, Fenwick Eagle 7' for a 5 wgt. to use instead. You'll need to put a new tip top on it though.

In any event, don't hesitate. God forbid anything bad should happen to that Winston....