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Re: From our friends at Sage

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2011/3/6 0:34
From Dauphin
Posts: 624
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I've messed with sages rods and they were like fishing a broomstick. Picked up every model and set it down in 5 seconds or less. Meanwhile I'd like to see their "slow" rod. And I agree with gfen downward locking is by far the way to go.

Posted on: 2012/7/5 10:28
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Re: From our friends at Sage

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2008/6/8 19:45
From Pittsburgh
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Quote:

IdratherbePhishing wrote:
I've messed with sages rods and they were like fishing a broomstick. Picked up every model and set it down in 5 seconds or less. Meanwhile I'd like to see their "slow" rod. And I agree with gfen downward locking is by far the way to go.


Have you tried an older LL or SLP? I like the feel of those.

Posted on: 2012/7/5 11:34


Re: From our friends at Sage

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2008/1/21 13:28
From South Central PA
Posts: 823
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I prefer downlocking as well but the large arbor reels or any reel with a large diameter could be awkard. The only advantage I can fathom is that I never get a line wrap around with my downlock seat rods, but do with my uplocks. I also prefer the grips that typically come with a downlock, namely the Fenwick style or cigar. A downside to downlocks is that you are always putting the edge of the reel on the ground when you lean it up against something.

Balance and feel trump everthing else in making this decision, however.

At the heart of the issue is at least partially an aesthetic decision made by rod makers and their preference for the reverse half wells grip, which frankly looks lame if you put a downlocking reel seat on it. Looks don't matter when it comes to performance, but they do matter to anyone who designs and tries to sell rods. Afterall, rods, reel seats, and reels are not just tools; they are like fishermen jewelry, and I think we all have some sort of preference regarding the aesthetics of these items even if vaguely understood.

For anything with a fighting butt or that you intend to use as a fighting an uplock is just common sense practical, though for me that is only in rods 7 weight or higher.

Posted on: 2012/7/5 13:27


Re: From our friends at Sage

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2010/6/19 16:43
From Clinton County, Pa.
Posts: 1783
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Quote:

bikerfish wrote:
because bamboo and glass are dead and no good fish would ever take a fly presented by such equipment
My first trout this year on a size 24 trico was caught on June 23rd with my 1970 vintage fiberglass Phillipson DF76 "Swamp Fox". IMO it is really fun to fish with older fly tackle. Bamboo and glass are far from dead sir.

Posted on: 2012/7/5 21:57
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Re: From our friends at Sage

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2007/7/2 19:40
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Ah yes,bamboo and glass,now that's truly a weighty subject

Posted on: 2012/7/6 7:04
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Re: From our friends at Sage
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2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
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Quote:

gfen wrote:
Quote:

afishinado wrote:
More mass = more weight, and more weight is a PITA to FISH with, IMO. I enjoy casting and fishing light weight rods.....thank you very much.

Downlocking reel seats....pooh! The lightweight rods of today balance better/easier with uplocking reels seats. Also, a bonus is you tuck the butt of the rod against your body when reeling w/o the reel bumping up against you.

I'd give up FFing if I had to fish one of G's precious Medalist reels....on a downlocking reel seat, yet! It would be twice as butt-heavy as jLo.

As always, YMMV.


You're smarter than this, which leads me to believe you're simply trolling for effect. Fair enough.

That said, you're wrong and I'm not motivated to explain why mostly because I don't care. And, to combat any future smugness in which you attempt to utilize sales figures, to that I say, "pet rocks were also wildly successful."

Good luck with your endeavours.



Yup, just funning you G.

But I really don't get it. What is the advantage of a downlocking reel seat?

Posted on: 2012/7/6 7:45


Re: From our friends at Sage

Joined:
2006/9/9 20:09
From Harrisburg
Posts: 2179
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Dear afish,

To me the advantage of a downlocking reel seat is the fact that the line almost never can get caught between the end of the rod and rear of the reel foot.

There really doesn't appear to be much standardization between manufacturers when it comes to the length of the reel seat and the overall length of the reel foot.

I have a 7'6" Redington 4 weight rod with an uplocking reel seat. When I mount my Gunnison 1 on it by the time the threads on the reel seat are firmly holding the reel in place there is almost 2 inches of the butt of the rod extended behind the reel. When I mount the same reel on a Sage 4 weight I have it is more like 1 inch.

That extra inch has the annoying ability to often grab the line when I let go of it from my off hand as a shoot a cast causing the cast to either go astray or stop dead.

I know that with a more conscious effort at line control with my off hand that I can reduce the likelyhood of that happening but it's still a PITA and something that doesn't happen at all with a downlocking seat, or some of my other rods equipped with uplocking seats.

I do not think that the balance or swing weight issues that some people talk about when comparing uplocking and downlocking seats are anything to worry about. I can easily compensate for them. I do however hate the magic hand that grabs the line and wraps it around the reel seat with a passion.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

Posted on: 2012/7/6 8:28
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Re: From our friends at Sage

Joined:
2007/4/8 20:43
From SEPA
Posts: 11270
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Quote:

afishinado wrote:
But I really don't get it. What is the advantage of a downlocking reel seat?


None, really. But the foot bone's connected to the leg bone.

It comes back to ergonomics, which is what Sage is pushing hard with their whatever-they-call-it cork shape.

Downlocking reel seats don't require a palm swell to hide the "hidden top" of an uplocking seat. No palm swell means better ergonomics, less fatigue and a gentle reinforcement of a proper grip (cigar grips also lack the palm swell, but I have an unfortunate tendency to spine the blank with my index, I'm sure I'm not the only one).

What Sage is suggesting here is a Half Wells grip, somewhat extended to try and cover for inevitable palm swell for the hidden top ring. A downlocking seat would've allowed proper rear taper of the grip and kept the swell in the middle, exactly where your hand demands it.


Posted on: 2012/7/6 11:35
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Re: From our friends at Sage

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2007/7/2 19:40
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Sorry G-but your argument Doesn't sell- if you're grasping the rod at the bottom of the grip instead of the top you have a poorly balanced outfit.Snicker time.
"Hey ,look at that dude,fishing with the poorly balanced outfit".
As Hewitt said there is no need to look like a bum[or beginner], astream.

could be wrong .lol

Posted on: 2012/7/6 12:00

Edited by pete41 on 2012/7/6 12:19:22
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Re: From our friends at Sage

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2010/6/19 16:43
From Clinton County, Pa.
Posts: 1783
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Quote:

pete41 wrote:
Ah yes,bamboo and glass,now that's truly a weighty subject
Weighty maybe, but if balanced correctly I don't mind the extra weight. In fact it feels better IMO than some of the real lightweights. Also the casts are VERY smooth.

Posted on: 2012/7/6 12:38
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Re: From our friends at Sage

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2007/4/8 20:43
From SEPA
Posts: 11270
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Unless you have tiny midget hands, Peter, your will be required to place your hand in the middle of the grip.

Convienetly, all popular forms of rod grip except a straight cigar, have a lovely swell in the middle that interfaces nicely with the divot of your hand.

The failing is the Western and the Full Wells both have palm swells that force a wrist angle that isn't correct, and certainly not for a "precision rod." The wrist angle may coincide nicely with helping you drive your wrist and arm for power, I don't have the authority to weigh in on that, but it is certainly more fatiguing than one which is ergonomcially designed.

Sage has shown us the front swell of a half-wells is right. They've certainly driven rod design and developmetn heavily as befits their place as top of the heap (for better or worse), but they done buyers a disservice by utilizing an uplocking seat which fit the hand as well as it could.

Hold your hand sideways, cocked towards you as if you were holding a rod. Now, open the fingers slightly so you can see the natural curve of your thumb and hand and the way your fingers naturally fall into line.

The rear swell forces one's hand uncomfortably by turning your wrist slightly.

To put it simply, rod construction might be acheiveing higher levels of technology, but they figured out the shape your hand goes along time ago.

Posted on: 2012/7/6 12:41
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Re: From our friends at Sage

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2009/5/29 6:40
From harlansburg
Posts: 4423
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Quote:

WildTigerTrout wrote:
Quote:

bikerfish wrote:
because bamboo and glass are dead and no good fish would ever take a fly presented by such equipment
My first trout this year on a size 24 trico was caught on June 23rd with my 1970 vintage fiberglass Phillipson DF76 "Swamp Fox". IMO it is really fun to fish with older fly tackle. Bamboo and glass are far from dead sir.

guess you've never seen any of the crap I fish with! 90% is vintage stuff, the new stuff is all glass.

Posted on: 2012/7/6 13:01


Re: From our friends at Sage

Joined:
2008/6/8 19:45
From Pittsburgh
Posts: 1465
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Quote:

gfen wrote:
Unless you have tiny midget hands


Also, dude, tiny midget hands is not the preferred nomenclature. Little people, please.

Posted on: 2012/7/6 13:06


Re: From our friends at Sage

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2007/7/2 19:40
Posts: 15129
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actually it should be "grasp disadvantaged ".

Posted on: 2012/7/6 13:09
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Re: From our friends at Sage

Joined:
2008/6/25 9:41
From Pgh
Posts: 1215
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New Sages are NOT worth it. They are simply too pricy. Don't get me wrong. I have two Sage rods. But I bought them used. My favorite is an old VPS, made in the 90s. It's considered medium-fast. (More medium than fast.) But even then, I bought it used. I simply cannot afford new Sages anymore. They priced themselves into the high-end category and slammed the door in my face.

It used to be there was little choice. You could go with cheap -- in price and quality-- rods that cast like crap. And then there were the more expensive rods that were top choice, like Sage or Scott.

NOT ANYMORE. Today there are SO MANY rods that cast just as sweet as a Sage and are inexpensive to boot. For example, my all-time favorite brookie stream rod is a Cortland GRX 7.5' 4 weight. imo, fishes better than my Sage VPS and it cost me about $90, new.

SAGE is a great rod maker. But if money were no object, I still don't think I would be buying them. There are simply too many other great, and much more prudent, choices.


Posted on: 2012/7/6 13:49

Edited by greenghost on 2012/7/6 14:16:44
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