Pheasant tail nymph abdomen substitute?

jreichel

jreichel

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
176
Location
Meadville, Crawford County
I'm having trouble tying my PT nymphs in larger sizes "12 and up". The problem is the tail fibers are not long enough to cover the whole abdomen. Is there a substitute material I can use or some trick? I thought about tying off and tying in another bunch of fibers but I'm not thrilled with the whole tail fiber wrapping process anyway they are just to short and slip and break on me. Could I get away with just fur dubbing of a similar color? I tied my first two (size 10) last week and then used them on Little Sandy Creek on Tuesday and caught 3 trout on them and now I feel the need to tie more! :)

Thanks
Jeff
 
It wouldn't be much of a PT if you don't use pheasant tail.

However, by adding more fibers the abdomen will make it thicker and go further up the shank.

Also, a lot of the time, the tail is of poor quality. When I buy a PT I pull them all off the shelf and choose the first feather from the rump; which is typically longer, straighter and has thicker, longer fibers.

Hey, if I'm paying $3 for 1 feather, I'm getting the best one.
 
tie in the pheasent tails then use a synthetic mix dubbing (antron/ice), maybe a brown,olive and a gold wire wrap. Honestly though i have nevertied a PT that big and probably never will or need to...

jeff
 
I would look for a new supply of pheasant. Its probably one of the cheapest feathers. You can probably find some that will give you less trouble.
 
Have you tried turkey tail yet?

Boyer
 
The suggestion of using a brown-olive ice dubbing for the abdomen is right on. I pretty much use this exclusively to tie pheasant tail nymphs and I find this pattern just as effective than the traditional pheasant tial pattern and more durable.
 
Short of buying a different ringneck tail or using a substitute, here are a few things you can try:

1) Are you using the same fibers for the tail as you're trying to make the body out of? Don't. Use a new set for each. The length you gain may be enough in some cases and you can always use the left overs from the tail for smaller PT bodies.

2) Make your thorax a little longer or long enough that you at least have shot at being able to make the entire abdomen out of a single set of fibers. The fish won't care..

3) If you aren't already, twist the pheasant fibers around the copper wire ribbing to make the body as a single unit. This will not only cut down some on fiber breakage, it will also allow to perhaps get an extra little bit of length out of the fibers as you wind.

Finally, I have to agree with whoever said you really don't need PT's that big. But maybe we're all wrong and you've found the Grail...:) Wouldn't surprise me none. Conventional wisdom only exists to be deflated. If you like these larger PT's you might substitute any good red/brown (dark rust) nymph dubbing and then rib with copper wire as per usual. It'll be close enough..
 
I'm using inherited materials so that could be half my problem and I do see the benefit of selecting my own feathers.

As for the fly size... I usually tie my first attempt at a pattern on the big side and then go down from there. Trouble is last year my first nymph tie was a gold ribbed hares ear and I tied 2 large ones 10 or 12 and then a bunch of size 16 in brown and olive. and not having caught anything on a nymph ever even store bought. I told myself I would give my own ties a good workout. So one outing last summer I tied on a size 16 and started fishing after a wile of no fish I tried an olive one. Then after another fish less period of time I figured why not and tied on one of the 2 large nymphs and caught 3 before I had to quit for the day and have caught fish on those big nymphs many times since. My plan is to tie some in the smaller sizes too but for right now my confidence is in the larger ones. Not having much experience in this sport can tend to lead one down some strange paths I guess.
 
RLeep2... I'm not using the same fibers for the tail and abdomen and on my very first one I did end up making the thorax longer. come to think of it thats the one I caught all my fish on that day, then I lost it to a snag.

Also on a different note, I'm still planning to try and figure out how to catch fish on West Branch Caldwell. I did well last year on Little Sandy and now have some confidence in my ability to catch fish on a fly so now I just need to learn to fish Indian style.

Matt... I have not tried turky tail could work and I even have some.
 
sounds like you got confidence in them and thats key...not sure of the waters you are fishing but maybe a tandem with a big and a small one will work even better??......i actually tied green caddis larva in a size 10 and they work, although id reserve it for deep/fastt water....BOTTOM LINE....fish the flies you are comfortable with but dont be afraid to experiment.
 
As for the fly size... So one outing last summer I tied on a size 16 and started fishing after a while of no fish I tried an olive one. Then after another fish less period of time I figured why not and tied on one of the 2 large nymphs and caught 3 before I had to quit for the day and have caught fish on those big nymphs many times since.
Click to expand...

Jeff-

No reason to argue with success! I do have a suggestion though. Each time you go to a stream, or a different piece of water, flip some rocks. Look at the bugs living on the bottom, paying attention to their size and color. That will give you a good indication of the size you should be fishing. One way is to just lift rocks. Another way to sample is if you have a mesh sampling net and a friend upstream a few feet can shuffle through and mix up the bottom (tread lightly). You will collect lots of cool stuff, and that will give you a better idea of the bugs that are living on that water.

JG
 
Pheasant tails are not all created equal. The tail feathers from the center have the longest fibers. Bigger (mature) birds have longer tail fibers. And the longest fibers are found at the base of each feather. I have some jumbo sized tail feathers that I reserve for tying bigger nymphs. Keep that in mind when shopping for PTs.

But, if you don't have any longer ones, I see no problem with tying off and adding a few more PT fibers to finish off the abdomen. One other thing, I twist the PT fibers around my tying thread and wrap on like I do dubbing. This gives it more durability and also allows you to use ever last mm of fiber when tying. You can dub it on the thread to extend it. I'm sure the fish won't mind.
 
Size 10 PT's are not a bad idea: iso, drakes, some march browns, and generic nymphs.
 
"Also on a different note, I'm still planning to try and figure out how to catch fish on West Branch Caldwell. I did well last year on Little Sandy and now have some confidence in my ability to catch fish on a fly so now I just need to learn to fish Indian style."

West Branch is a tough creek to fish.
 
I use turkey. If you can find a site with Rene Harrop patterns, he uses turkey for many of them.
 
Try Fuzzy Bug. It's a synthetic tiny chenille. In bug Brown or similar.
 
mrflyfish wrote:
"Also on a different note, I'm still planning to try and figure out how to catch fish on West Branch Caldwell. I did well last year on Little Sandy and now have some confidence in my ability to catch fish on a fly so now I just need to learn to fish Indian style."

West Branch is a tough creek to fish.
Click to expand...

I know it's tough! But I like that place and it's like a challenge! I'll keep going back till I get it right! :)
 
remember trout act the same in all creeks
 
oh yeah , conditions change but trout don't
 
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