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Re: Importance of wings on dry flies?

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2006/9/11 11:41
From bucks cty
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Quote:

sandfly wrote:
If trout see a mirror then how can they see us??? its a mirror around their window which at a 2 foot depth is like 3 ft. round..take a snorkel and goggles and lay under water on your back...been there, its amazing what you see and don't..


Jack, the mirror effect only works with flat water as in a pond..


I think Jacks point is that there is a depression in the surface film from the weight of the fly which, arguably would be seen before the wing would be seen entering the window. I have a book with closeup underwater pictures which show this.

Another factor to consider is the chromatic distortion that occurs across the "window" described in Sandfly's figure.

As Sandfly notes this is in flat water. Throw in turbulance it's a wonder that trout find food on the surface.

Posted on: 2007/12/18 19:25


Re: Importance of wings on dry flies?
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How can we rely on Sandfly's pictures when they are in black & white? The fish see us or objects above the water, as a relative light and dark background that establishes the "mirror" which is depicted pretty well in the photos in the links supplied above by another poster. As I said, I am sticking with my story.

OK, I can't stick with my story any longer. I was wrongly remembering-- the window of above-water vision is larger when the trout are lower in the water column, but, importantly, there is a blind-spot that prevent them from seeing items on the surface (or above), even within the "surface area" of the window if those items are within a certain degree (10degs?) of the surface, hence the often seen image of the stealthy fly angler crouching or half-kneeling on the river bank. I'm gonna stick with this one now.

Posted on: 2007/12/19 10:10
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Re: Importance of wings on dry flies?

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This better Jack?

Attach file:



jpg  jacks pic.jpg (0.00 KB)
49_47695c5221363.jpg X px

Posted on: 2007/12/19 13:01


Re: Importance of wings on dry flies?

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2006/9/9 22:43
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I catch more fish with parachutes and camparaduns than I do with the catskill type drys . And thier alot faster to tie must of the time I out fish the people who use the catskill type dries so I don't think the fish care about the wings its more for the fisherman than the fish IMHO

Posted on: 2007/12/19 13:04
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Re: Importance of wings on dry flies?

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I have a book which argues that the shape of the depresion in the surface film is highly important to fish stikes and that the traditional drys don't match a true mayfly. It promotes a variant on a parachute pattern. I'm traveling and can't remember the title but when I get home I'll post it.

Posted on: 2007/12/19 13:39


Re: Importance of wings on dry flies?
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tomgamber wrote:
This better Jack?


I guess it's better, but a pack of crayolas is no substitute for science updated to at least the 18th Century. That illustration looks like it came out of the Compleat Angler.
Click to see original Image in a new window

Posted on: 2007/12/19 13:46
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Re: Importance of wings on dry flies?

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I knew I should have waited for my kid to get home..can't slip anything by you, eh Jack?

Posted on: 2007/12/19 14:10


Re: Importance of wings on dry flies?
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tabasco_joe wrote:
I have a book which argues that the shape of the depresion in the surface film is highly important to fish stikes and that the traditional drys don't match a true mayfly. It promotes a variant on a parachute pattern. I'm traveling and can't remember the title but when I get home I'll post it.


I believe that book would be In the Ring of the Rise. Anyone got a copy handy?

Posted on: 2007/12/19 14:50
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Re: Importance of wings on dry flies?

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Quote:

Padraic wrote:
Quote:

tabasco_joe wrote:
I have a book which argues that the shape of the depresion in the surface film is highly important to fish stikes and that the traditional drys don't match a true mayfly. It promotes a variant on a parachute pattern. I'm traveling and can't remember the title but when I get home I'll post it.


I believe that book would be In the Ring of the Rise. Anyone got a copy handy?


Actually not Ring of the Rise. It's "Dry Flies: An Improved Method of Tying" by L.T. Threadgold. I only had a chance to skim it. maybe over Christmas I'll have the time to dive into it.

I also have Ring of the Rise but haven't gotten a chance to digest that one either.

Posted on: 2007/12/20 8:23


Re: Importance of wings on dry flies?
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An article by Castwell

A book by Threadgold

From now on, I want to be known as Jack M. Slapwater.

Posted on: 2007/12/20 9:34
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Re: Importance of wings on dry flies?

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I have a copy of th "In the Ring of the Rise", and the conclusion that I drew from it was that the fish can see the wings but, based on the pictures submitted, it would be hard for the fish to pick them out as they float by. Think about it. How thick is a mayfly wing? Now put that leading edge of the wing against a light/dark background and the fish will not "think" to focus on whether or not this fly has wings. Besides, sometimes cripples get better results and the wings are not up.
Just my thoughts.

Steve

Posted on: 2007/12/21 9:07
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Re: Importance of wings on dry flies?

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From Tioga co. formerly of bucks co.
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here you are, scientific proof..

Attach file:



jpg  wing.jpg (0.00 KB)


Posted on: 2007/12/21 9:23
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Re: Importance of wings on dry flies?

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Wings are pretty important on a Comparadun! Because there isn't any hackle. It's just tail, body, wing. And for selective trout, Comparaduns are very good.

And learn how to tie parachute dry flies. These are really good. Get someone to show you, because they aren't that easy to learn from a book.

On standard flies that are fully hackled, like the Adams, I don't think wings make much difference. I fished winglesss Adams and March Browns a lot and caught plenty of trout. But George Harvey said that the fly looks incomplete without the wing, and I agree. I Light Cahill without the lemon wood duck wing just isn't the same. This has to do with the craft and art of flytying, more than the fish catching ability.

But Comparaduns and Parachutes will outfish the standard fully hackled flies in most cases. Learn how to tie those.

Posted on: 2007/12/21 9:26


Re: Importance of wings on dry flies?
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Troutbert wrote: “Comparaduns and Parachutes will outfish the standard fully hackled flies in most cases”

Yup – for me too. Though, the Catskill style tie has one advantage over the aforementioned ties, it’s easier to skitter or move on the surface. I do tie Catskill style flies in many patterns as well, for that reason.

For the most part, I believe that the hackle on top of the fly probably represents the wing to the fish anyway, but like Troubert said, for aesthetic reasons, I do tie wings on my Catskill type flies too.

Posted on: 2007/12/21 9:54


Re: Importance of wings on dry flies?

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2006/9/11 13:05
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I only tie parachutes for my boxes.

Posted on: 2007/12/21 15:24
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