Upper Bucks Co Surprise

[Mike]

A survey today discovered a wild BT population in a trib to the Delaware in upper Bucks Co. Preliminary data analysis indicated that the stream just missed the biomass by one kg that would have been required for a class A designation. A quick exploratory survey in 1992 did not reveal any trout being present. Quite a turn-around and very unusual for a stream without a history of pollution problems. Ultimately, the stream will be added to the wild trout streams list at some point.

Next week...a survey of another newly developed wild BT population in a new Berks Co Limestoner. This was a formerly warm stretch of stream with no trout in the 1990's that is now a cold Limestoner.

 

[Fishidiot]

More good news! Kudos Mike.

 

[afishinado]

VERY nice, Mike. Thanks for keeping us up to date.

Back not that long ago, I imagined the future of fishing in PA and believed we would xxxxxx up coldwater trout fishing and have mostly coolwater smallmouths left to fish for in many of our streams and rivers. Not!...quite the opposite.

Keep surveying and keep racking up the Exceptional Value streams so they are afforded more protection / conservation.

We should all be on guard for the greedy Politicians that seek to take away the ability of the professionals and scientists to make judgements to protect our fish and wildlife based on scientific data.

Here is a thread dealing with that very subject.

Thanks again, Mike. Keep up the good work.

 

[sandfly]

bet I know the stream.. My lips are sealed.

 

[troutbert]

Do you have a theory on why the stream had no trout before, and why it does now?

 

[The_Sasquatch]

Afish, agreed! I remember a time not so long ago on this board where it was very doom and gloom. Something good is happening to our state. I will say this about fracking. I think the issue has made more people care about what is happening about streams.

 

[phiendWMD]

I think I'm going to have to start exploring Upper Bucks a little harder.

How does a stream that used to be warm water 20 year turn into a cold water stream?

 

[The_Sasquatch]

In the case of Berks, since it's a limestoner my guess is that it always had the potential to be a CW stream but lack of cover and things like that probably warmed it up in the summer. Perhaps there's better cover now? That's just my guess.

 

[Mike]

Troutbert: In the Bucks case, it is possible that there was a blockage in earlier years that prevented trout from moving into this creek at its mouth. I have determine what kind of structure was at the mouth and whether the structure at the mouth has deteriorated or was modified by nature or man in the recent past following one of the floods.

In the Berks case, the improvement I have been told has to do with a spring that has either appeared or has begun flowing again well downstream in the previously warm part of the drainage basin. There are now wild trout present in this stretch.

 

[phiendWMD]

When I asked, I wondered if maybe a new spring popped up. Didn't think of the cover, but that definitely also could fit.

Do you find new wild trout streams regularly?

 

[Stagger_Lee]

Did some research and think I know what Bucks creek it is BUT can someone PM me to confirm as not to spot burn? Would love for my county to offer some more trout opps so I have spots to go to when time is tight.

 

[geebee]

The_Sasquatch wrote:
In the case of Berks, since it's a limestoner my guess is that it always had the potential to be a CW stream but lack of cover and things like that probably warmed it up in the summer. Perhaps there's better cover now? That's just my guess.

last night I was reading through Joe Armstrong's original TU guide to PA limestoners. it seems that in the late 80's, Berks, Bucks and Lancaster Co's had dozens of limestone streams with lethal temps caused by pollution, damming, lack of cover, too much silt etc.

a wild guess would be that water treatment has improved - leaching into streams is now uncommon, cover has grown up, and the floods of 2011 and 2012 washed away much of the silt from historical redds, and the bigger rivers are cleaner allowing larger trout to spawn in the tribs.

I found some passages in the book that were absolutely intriguing - including wild rainbows in a well known Berks co streams trib.

there was a stream in far northern bucks that had wild brookies even back then.

both streams are on my winter walking list.

 

[Smike]

I helped Mike with locating and confirming a reproducing trout population on another creek in the central part of the county just a year ago, and its awesome to hear he found a new (and apparently robust) population in the northern section. Growing up in central bucks county I’ve been witness to the ebb and flow of trout in the county. Land use I believe is also one of the major contributors to the health and reach of trout in the county. What was primarily farming (a significant portion of it was dairy farming) has dwindled to a few farms left. It’s sad in one way but the benefits in environmental ways are hard to dismiss. Most comminutes here now have watershed associations which work hand in hand with TU and other environment groups towards common goals. As stated previously, waste water treatment upgrades have help a lot as well. One creek in particular had treated water released directly into the steam, which now releases the water into a letch field far away instead. Now there appears to be a sustaining naturally reproducing trout population in that section of stream. That is just one success story in a string of many.

Now for what may be the biggest potential restoration in all of SE PA, TU gained approval from Solbery Township for removal of Ingham Spring lake dam just west of New Hope. The limestone spring originates just 80 yards above the lake and is a 2,000 gal per minute pristine spring with almost no storm water intrusion. Thermal impacts from the lake appear to be the only major setback for trout. The plan would be to have a restored brook trout spring creek generating from and flowing through about ¼ mile of park land. The potential character could be much like those better know spring creeks in the central part of the state.

The efforts and results of TU and other organization have been nothing short of amazing. None of these streams would make for a destination in and of itself, but the number of streams supporting trout in the central and northern part of the state now vs. 20 years ago is a testament to the overall water quality and realization that development if done correctly can benefit those fisheries (Either directly, or indirectly by drawing in residents that make conservation a priority).

Mike

 

[ryguyfi]

So you're saying there's still hope of finding a wild trout stream in Beaver county???

My hope is never lost.

 

[NJAngler]

Knowing trout are in a stream is nice but if nobody can fish there because its on private land, well I really don't see that as good news. I see it as yet one more place I can't fish. Class "A" trout list is depressing to look at since most are off limits. In all honesty, I'd rather not know. Tell me about it when I can fish it ;-)

 

[salmonoid]

NJAngler wrote:
Knowing trout are in a stream is nice but if nobody can fish there because its on private land, well I really don't see that as good news. I see it as yet one more place I can't fish. Class "A" trout list is depressing to look at since most are off limits. In all honesty, I'd rather not know. Tell me about it when I can fish it ;-)

You seem to have made the mistake of believing that fish exist for your pleasure and that landowners should also open their land for your pleasure. Rather, look at it as a blessing that some fish allow themselves to be caught and that some land is open to the public. Also consider that private land provides some amount of protection for the fish.

I don't agree that most of the Class A is off limits, statewide or Bucks County only (where 3 of 4 streams are listed as almost 100% private open). Further, just because the list says one thing doesn't mean you still can't ask permission (and just because a section is listed as open also doesn't mean that it hasn't closed since then).

 

[Chaz]

troutbert wrote:
Do you have a theory on why the stream had no trout before, and why it does now?

What they though in the 1800's, Spontenous generation! :-D
The only way they could have been there is stocking, probably not, or they were present somewhere in the headwaters. The other posibility, they came from some other creek out of the river.

 

[Chaz]

ryguyfi wrote:
So you're saying there's still hope of finding a wild trout stream in Beaver county???

My hope is never lost.

There are probably a couple, just keep looking.

 

[pcray1231]

Not so sure about Beaver, the geology just sucks. There probably weren't any, or at least not many, before white men settled it either.

I do have generally the same view as NJ Angler, though with a more positive view. I do think trout fishing is improving in this state, both in adding new waters, and in improving existing ones. Sure, there are negatives mixed in. You can find streams that are getting worse, but there are more that are getting better. You can find streams that are being posted, but there are plenty available to the public, more and more are PERMANENTLY getting set aside for the public, and we're making new trout streams to boot! Acid rain abatement. Mine acid cleanups. Better sewage treatments. Getting better about stream "buffer" zones. And management and angler attitudes are getting better, if slowly.

There's more good than bad.

I do agree that a wild trout stream is NOT a resource if the public can't access it. Well, you could argue that improving the water quality on posted land is likely to improve it downstream somewhere where the public can access it. And that's true. But to be clear, if I were to support such a project, the purpose would be to improve the water quality where the public can access it. In itself, there's no value to improving private, posted resources. The only value to the public is it's effect on resources available to the public. If the landowner wants to improve it, good for him, but the public shouldn't give him a dime.

The value of nature isn't intrinsic. We're well past that, our land bears no resemblence to "nature" anymore. It's value is it's value to humans. That said, I think in making management practices, us humans tend to think way too short term. I'd rather have something return a small benefit forever than get a large benefit now and ruin it for the future.

 

[FarmerDave]

One kg? No offense but it would take a lot of your typical native brook trout to make 22.2 lbs. Still a nice find. Too bad you have to advertise it now.