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Re: Survey results of Black Creek aka Hayes Creek

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2008/8/24 20:26
From Mount Joy, PA
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Quote:

TimMurphy wrote:
You probably don't want to go alone either. Not because it's an arduous hike, but because you are far enough off the road that should anything happen to you you might be SOL unless you get lucky.


Good point. It feels very remote back in those woods...

This was a brookie I caught just above 534 a few years back:

Click to see original Image in a new window

Posted on: 2013/11/21 12:00


Re: Survey results of Black Creek aka Hayes Creek

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2006/9/13 10:18
From LV
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Quote:

wgmiller wrote:
Great follow-up and nice to see that action was taken on angler feedback. I've fished Black/Hayes on a few occasions in the past and only found brook trout. This was the stretch from 534 upstream to where the stream splits. I'm assuming that the stream that goes to the left (north) is Hayes as Black Creek goes northeast? ...

WG, the stream is listed as Hayes Creek on some maps and Black Creek on others. At the split Hayes/Black Creek goes to the left and Fourth Run to the right (northeast).

Posted on: 2013/11/21 13:30


Re: Survey results of Black Creek aka Hayes Creek

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troutbert wrote:
In the lower site they got 26.7 kg/ha, which is below the 40 kg/ha mark that defines Class A streams. That's pretty typical for a freestone stream.

At the upper site they got 167.59. That's a very high number. It's rare that freestone streams have that high of a population. There is probably some "special" situation there that is leading to such a high number.

They might be getting some trout from the river that move up there when the river gets warm.

They should do another survey site further up the creek to get a better idea of the population.

I noticed that too and wondered if package plants are adding nutrients. Cause the streams in the park are pretty acidic in the headwaters. One of the culverts near the mouth is pretty inpassable during low water.

Posted on: 2013/11/21 13:32


Re: Survey results of Black Creek aka Hayes Creek

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2006/9/10 22:25
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Like most small wild trout waters, u gotta be first through or your wasting your time. Anglers aren't the only creatures that spook fish. I've seen flocks of merganers there(they come up from the lehigh) more than once and they will send trout into hiding for hours. If your following up behind them, you won't see signs of any trout whatsoever.

I never doubted the number of fish because each spring u can see all the yoy trout in the shallows which gives u a good idea of whats in there. Its an "A" stream but it gets a "D" for consistency and a "C" for fishability. Nice-looking water but generally its minimal reward for max effort.

Fourth Run is acid-affected(pH around 4-4.2) so trout numbers there are minimal. Few large pools as well. If anything, it impairs the lower section of Hayes.

Posted on: 2013/11/21 17:35


Re: Survey results of Black Creek aka Hayes Creek

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2009/7/29 10:25
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interesting and thanks nja... I have found very few trout on fourth

Posted on: 2013/11/22 7:42


Re: Survey results of Black Creek aka Hayes Creek

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For you stat nuts - like me - here you go:

I've fished Hayes 23 times(1995-2012). On my career list of Pa trout streams fished, it ranks 41st based upon trout caught per visit(23.4). 12 brook trout and 527 brown.


23.4 sounds great to most but for being a Class "A" stream. fairly remote and with 3+ miles of continuous access, its not a good number from an angling success pov.

Its also interesting that among my "Top ten" best streams. only 4 of them are Class "A"., In fact the top three are not "A". Just goes to show that there are some great public waters out there not on any list - as of yet.

Disclaimer: my #'s are mostly based upon spin fishing which I do about 90% of the time. Of the 23 trips to Hayes, only two were ff and none particularly good(6 and 8 fish respectively)

Posted on: 2013/11/22 8:43


Re: Survey results of Black Creek aka Hayes Creek

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2008/8/24 20:26
From Mount Joy, PA
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Interesting stats. Clearly the electroshocking shows that fish are there, however, as has been stated by Mike in the past, a fishing is not the most effective means to catch them. I'll keep the study in the back of my head, but still have a gut feeling that on a flyfishing effort/reward scale, this creek is pretty low.

Posted on: 2013/11/22 9:18


Re: Survey results of Black Creek aka Hayes Creek

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2012/10/24 19:22
From Da 'Berg, PA
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This is dumb question - but has anyone fished it mid winter ?

I was thinking of giving it a shot. I've read that the fishing can be exceptional in two guide books.

Posted on: 2013/11/23 18:02
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Re: Survey results of Black Creek aka Hayes Creek

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2007/6/19 21:49
From Lancaster County
Posts: 1490
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geebee wrote:
This is dumb question - but has anyone fished it mid winter ?

I was thinking of giving it a shot. I've read that the fishing can be exceptional in two guide books.


I don't know that I would classify any stream that I've fished in the wintertime as exceptional, because I usually fish freestoners and they slow remarkably as the cold sets in. The bedrock geology there is predominantly sandstone, so I don't think there would be any limestone influence to keep the water warmer. But, my wintertime wanderings are always more about being outside prospecting; catching fish is always a bonus. I don't have any specific experience on this stream, but that doesn't mean that the guide books are wrong or that one couldn't glean equal enjoyment in exploring it during the winter.

Posted on: 2013/11/23 19:32


Re: Survey results of Black Creek aka Hayes Creek

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2011/5/3 12:22
From South Lebanon Township, PA
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I'm sure it's an extremely low alkalinity, infertile freestoner. Seemingly all of the small, steep Pocono streams are that way. Most are pretty tannic too. Not sure on Black/Hayes, but I bet it is at least somewhat tannic. Someone that's fished it can verify.

I agree with salmonoid that on most days, it won't fish very well in Winter, despite what any guide books may say. This is pretty much standard for small freestoners in Winter. If you catch them after a rain, and during a warming trend you can have a decent day, but they won't show their best stuff until the afternoon water temp is consistently in the mid 50's, or higher. Even then, and especially with Browns, you want to fish them after a rain event.

As salmonoid mentioned, Winter is the best time to do your scouting...less brush along the streams and easier to get around. If you're walking along the stream though, you might as well take your rod!

Posted on: 2013/11/23 19:43


Re: Survey results of Black Creek aka Hayes Creek

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2012/10/24 19:22
From Da 'Berg, PA
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thanks guys. i'll stick to the limestoners unless we get a warm spell.

Posted on: 2013/11/23 20:04
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Re: Survey results of Black Creek aka Hayes Creek

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2008/5/5 11:06
From King Of Prussia, Pa
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Am I the only who noticed that the trout pictured on the last page of the report is obv a stocked brown even though they labeled it as "12 wild brown trout".

Posted on: 2013/11/23 23:07


Re: Survey results of Black Creek aka Hayes Creek

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2006/11/2 8:50
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Quote:

JasonS wrote:
Am I the only who noticed that the trout pictured on the last page of the report is obv a stocked brown even though they labeled it as "12 wild brown trout".


Why do you think it is a stocked brown? It looks wild to me. The pectoral fin looks perfect.

The brook trout shown in post #16 is a hatchery fish, though. I'm 96.47% sure.

The indicator is the very opaque, milky look of the fins. That is common with hatchery trout. Wild trout fins are generally much more transparent, particularly with small trout.

Posted on: 2013/11/23 23:29


Re: Survey results of Black Creek aka Hayes Creek

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2009/2/19 19:59
From Mont Co, Pa
Posts: 1972
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Quote:

troutbert wrote:
Quote:

JasonS wrote:
Am I the only who noticed that the trout pictured on the last page of the report is obv a stocked brown even though they labeled it as "12 wild brown trout".


Why do you think it is a stocked brown? It looks wild to me. The pectoral fin looks perfect.


Good question. I see what I believe is an eye spot as well. Wildtrout2 says wild trout on that one.

Posted on: 2013/11/24 7:32
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Re: Survey results of Black Creek aka Hayes Creek

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2009/2/19 19:59
From Mont Co, Pa
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I was going through some pics and found this one from Hayes/Black Creek from 2010. I think I remember posting this pic and asking if folks thought this brookie was wild or stocked. It's size makes it questionable. It was one of only 3 trout I caught that day.

Attach file:



jpg  IMG_0015 (Custom).JPG (38.46 KB)
2119_5291fb883a433.jpg 450X338 px

Posted on: 2013/11/24 8:13
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