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Re: Little J rainbows

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2006/9/13 10:18
From LV
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We're seeing rainbows in places we've never seen them before, and at around the time PFBC was importing rainbows from NC hatcheries is when we started seeing more rainbows in places they shouldn't be. Like Cold Run, Solomon Creek and some others, they've reproduced at least once. Hopefully that's it.
tomy way of thinking all stocked fish should be sterile.
As for the LJ PFBC didn't catch any in their survey, but that doesn't mean there' aren't some there. What it means is they are probably moving around from Spruce Creek.

Posted on: 2012/8/27 20:53
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It's time to stop stocking all wild trout streams no matter what Classification they are, and time to eradicate brown trout in some of our limestone streams and re-establish brookies in them.


Re: Little J rainbows

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2011/9/16 10:59
From Johnstown, Pa
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nymphingmaniac,

Thank for clearing that up about the wild rainbow eggs. That's what I meant in my post about the LJRA establishing a wild bow population on the J. I know that topic was tabled for a while. Has there been anymore talk that it might become a reality? Or are they just going to see what happens to the rainbows that are already in the J?

Posted on: 2012/8/28 9:04


Re: Little J rainbows

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2009/9/14 12:48
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Quote:
Where wild rainbow populations exist in PA, it has been because of private stockings of rainbow trout that are closer to wild strain fish.


I believe that there is some truth in this, but I also think that something else must be going on. There have been wild rainbows in the upper D for a long time, but my understanding is that rainbows have not displaced brook trout in smaller catskill streams, certainly not to the extent that they have in the south. Warmer temperatures must give rainbows a competitive edge over brookies, but it is certainly difficult to know for sure how and why these things happen.

From the standpoint of protecting brook trout in PA, it would be nice if cautionary principles were followed. I don't think rainbows will displace the browns, however. Rainbow trout are basically food to browns.


Posted on: 2012/8/28 9:21


Re: Little J rainbows

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2010/9/1 13:55
From State College PA
Posts: 486
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wetfly,
Hasn't been discussed at the meetings or informally for what seems to be a long time (1 year+). In addition to the issues raised in this post, the leaders of the LJRA decided that the following are much greater priorities (not strictly in this order):
1. having it declared class-A and water of high value (or whatever the term is to get addition protections)
2. secure fishing easements to maintain access
3. improving the river by reducing erosion by stream bank stabilization and monitoring practices at bridge and roadwork construction sites
4. working to improve bottom water release from dams during the summer to keep the river cooler.

improving the river takes priority. I agree.

Low water cleanup planned for Saturday Sept 8th. Life member's banquet that evening. LJRA association meeting tuesday the 11th 7pm. All are great opportunities to talk to the leaders of the LJRA about plans for the river and the possibility of introducing wild bows.

Posted on: 2012/8/28 16:11


Re: Little J rainbows

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2006/9/18 8:28
From Attitudinally, one mile south of Lake LeBoeuf
Posts: 850
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>>Where wild rainbow populations exist in PA, it has been because of private stockings of rainbow trout that are closer to wild strain fish. >>

The only change I would make to this would be to add the words "or Federal" right after "private" in the sentence. If what the Commission (and ANF) biologists told me long ago is true, whatever strain of RT the Feds were stocking back when they were still doing catchable plants in the National Forest was probably the source of the scattered wild RT pops in the ANF. I think most of these pops are gone now, but back in the 70's and 80's, there were still a number of streams with some (never many) wild RT in the ANF.

I really, really like wild, small stream freestone bows. When hooked, they are hotter than firecrackers. So, I really enjoy fishing for them. But for the sake of the brook trout, I don't suppose I'd want to see them widely established in PA freestones. But I cannot say the notion isn't tempting...:)

Posted on: 2012/8/28 19:01


Re: Little J rainbows

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2006/9/9 17:20
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Just wanted to throw out two possibilities: 1) that whatever rainbows the PFBC caught in their survey might have been assumed to be stocked just because they weren't looking for wild reproduction in the Little J. It's not always easy to tell, especially if that's not really something they were spending time trying to ascertain. So it may not be accuate to say that they didn't net any wild ones. 2) the state was putting a lot of fingerling bows in some unusual places not long ago (Cove Creek in Bedford County comes to mind). Could some of these wild-appearing bows have been planted as fingerlings? (I am aware that the stocking of fingerling browns was recently halted)

Posted on: 2012/8/28 19:18


Re: Little J rainbows

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2010/8/5 20:05
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Will, I was at the 2010 survey on the J and can say with quite confident that biologists on hand looked for wild versus stocked regardless of the species, and are quite competent in doing so. That being said, trout stocked as fingerlings that survive are virtually impossible to differentiate from wild fish. For example, look at the picture of a wild versus stocked (only determined from the removed adipose fin) trout in the PFBC web report. Anyone who claims to be able to differentiate between the two based on characteristics other than the missing adipose fin (removed by the PFBC prior to stocking) is either a miss informed or bending the truth.

Posted on: 2012/8/30 21:59


Re: Little J rainbows

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2006/11/20 10:08
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Another possibility is that the homewaters, aka spring ridge, club stocked fingerlings. I have recentlly found fingerling rainbows downstream from another of the evil empire's properties, and if I can somehow prove that src stocked them over a population of wild brown trout, I will immediately contact our local WCO. Anyhow, this is just another possibility, and if the empire did indeed put them in the LJR, the trout there are probably large enough to eat them before they do much damage, just as they helped take care of the fingerlings the PFBC used to stock there.

Posted on: 2012/8/31 10:55


Re: Little J rainbows

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2009/9/14 12:48
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Quote:
if I can somehow prove that src stocked them over a population of wild brown trout, I will immediately contact our local WCO.


Prediction: they won't do anything about it.


Posted on: 2012/8/31 16:19


Re: Little J rainbows
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
Posts: 8856
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Quote:

rrt wrote:
Another possibility is that the homewaters, aka spring ridge, club stocked fingerlings. I have recentlly found fingerling rainbows downstream from another of the evil empire's properties, and if I can somehow prove that src stocked them over a population of wild brown trout, I will immediately contact our local WCO. Anyhow, this is just another possibility, and if the empire did indeed put them in the LJR, the trout there are probably large enough to eat them before they do much damage, just as they helped take care of the fingerlings the PFBC used to stock there.



Hey Rich,

I may be well off base, but I find it hard to believe the SRC/HW Club would do anything that might benefit them long term, like 3 or 4 years down the road. I just can't see them stocking pee pee trout (Mo's word), letting them disperse into the entire stream, and hope that some will return or remain in 3 or 4 years to be caught by their members.

I would think, if they thought they could get away with it, the SRC/HW Club would more likely want to put fish fences on both ends of their property and load it with fresh lunkers for their sports to have at 'em.

Just a thought.


Posted on: 2012/9/1 5:39


Re: Little J rainbows

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Afish,
Yes, you're probably right, though it seems odd that these pee pee's just recently appeared adjacent to the src property. It would be difficult to imagine their doing something long term. No one seems to fish that 100-yard property with 11 acres that the empire bought for 335,000 dollars. The previous owner had bulldozed much of the stream after a flood and then DEP forced him to replace the bulldozed rock. Only beaver's avarice could be responsible for his having his minion, "forked tongue," arrange to buy this property. I guess I got to rambling again -- you probably are right, though, about the little rainbows.

Posted on: 2012/9/1 10:31


Re: Little J rainbows
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2006/9/9 17:32
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Several times in recent years when I've fished the public Harvey section of Spruce, I've seen large bows (likely from club water) spawning. This is usually in Sept. I'll bet you've seen it too. Over the same period, I've also caught a good number of tiny bows in this section that I've always assumed were the wild progeny of these spawning attempts. Doesn't it make sense that some of these little bows could find they way downstream to the LJ? Or, perhaps, these big bows could be spawning in the J just as they do (or try to do) in Spruce? Perhaps the clubs are stocking fingerling bows, but I find this unlikely (and really don't care what the clubs are doing).

The obvious answer - in my view - is that bows are establishing wild populations in Spruce and that this appears to be spreading into the rest of the LJ watershed. Is this good or bad? I'm inclined to think it's a good thing. Time will tell.

Posted on: 2012/9/1 10:42


Re: Little J rainbows
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2006/9/9 19:16
From Dallastown, PA
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I agree with Mr Idiot. Overspill from Spruce Creek pellet pig progeny or perhaps pellet pig progeny procreated in propriate pebble areas of the LIttle J.

Interestingly this year for the first time I caught a wild bow in the Muddy Creek Watershed. Then 4 months later I hear from a club near the area I caught it that they are catching many wild looking bows. They send pics I confirm and say I would be doubtful if I hadn't experienced it myself near there in May.

During the first year there are many smaller nursery waters for the fry to fingerling to survive, when they become 4-7" long they need to occupy the lies of larger fish which push them out, downstream to bigger water, warmer times in summer push them back up where they have to compete for cover and food. It is at this time where the rubber hits the road for their survival. Can they outcompete the resident wild browns who have a foothold within the watershed? Then continue through the next year as larger fish with the same cycle only now make it through to sexual maturity in the larger warmer crik. This will be the test to see if the population continues to be robust.


Posted on: 2012/9/1 11:10
_________________
Don't hit me with them negative waves so early in the morning. Think the bridge will be there and it will be there. It's a mother, beautiful bridge, and it's gonna be there. Ok?


Re: Little J rainbows

Joined:
2006/9/9 8:53
From York
Posts: 515
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I caught two small bows that appeared to be wild above Spruce Creek this week. Caught one larger bow. All the rest were browns.

Posted on: 2012/9/15 7:46


Re: Little J rainbows

Joined:
2006/9/21 0:02
From Pittsburgh
Posts: 4227
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I've also been catching a few more rainbows on the little j lately - all appearing to me to be stockies.
I figure they've been coming in from shaver creek on the lower end, or bald eagle creek on the upper end - besides spruce creek of course.
Don't really have a problem with it. Browns still seem to outnumber them by far - from what I've caught anyway.

Posted on: 2012/9/15 13:21



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