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Re: What's in the 'frac' fluid???

Joined:
2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
Posts: 12923
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Since the legal questions regarding proprietary info are somewhat in my specialty, just a little info:

Patents: Publicly disclosed information. Protects the mixture from being used (without permission) by other companies for the length of the patent. Patents do expire. The implied exchange is a temporary monopoly on the product in exchange for that public disclosure. And since its public, other companies have the option of tinkering with the mixture, and if they are able to make an advancement that "wouldn't be obvious to one reasonably skilled in the art", they can then patent that advancement.

Trade Secrets: Company does not disclose information to public, patent office, or anyone else. Protection lasts indefinitely, so long as the company makes a reasonable attempt to keep the secret. Many employees may not know the information, and those who do have signed agreements with the employer to not disclose. If any outside work is done, the company can obtain a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) first. Other companies cannot obtain info via industrial espionage.

The protection given to a trade secret is in if it is improperly disclosed (by an employee or outside party under an NDA) or discovered (industrial espionage), the company is entitled to damages. However, the danger is that other companies CAN attempt to reverse engineer the process or independently discover it on their own, and if they discover it, there is no protection.

In most states, the interest of protecting trade secrets outweighs other legal interests, such as health, safety, environment, etc. So companies are within their legal right to deny the information even if the DEP, etc. orders them to disclose. One of those areas where "legal" rights and "moral" rights may not be in harmony. Of course, one would hope in some situations companies would do the morally right thing to protect public perception of their brand, even if not legally required.

Posted on: 2010/11/24 8:33


Re: What's in the 'frac' fluid???

Joined:
2009/4/1 21:52
From Johnstown, PA
Posts: 4458
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JackM.........Looks like a showdown looming between Haliburton and OSHA will be interesting to see how it shakes out. It's kinda sorta Obama vs Cheney should be a good indication of things to come. I'm not sure who the director of OSHA is , i used to have to know that stuff , or if he is an Obama appointee or is a Bush holdover. Since i heard recently that a move was made to put ammunition under OSHA jurisdiction away from ATF i'm gonna guess that it's not a Bush holdover. Having worked in an industry as a worker represented by a Union the procedure that is required is for one or more of the workers to file an OSHA complaint on the MSDS violation. Being the Devils' Advocate for a moment I'm going to bet that if that happens those employees will be fired , lacking a collective bargaining agent they will have to appeal to the NLRB. It just dawned on me that there might be an organizing opportunity here unless my gut feeling is wrong I doubt that very many of the workers involved with Marcellus are represented by a Union. If for example they were represented by the United Steelworkers of America they could not be fired for filing an OSHA complaint , don't get me wrong the LAW says all workers have the right but a worker that doesn't have a Union to back them up will be fired for some fabricated reason , NOT for filing an OSHA complaint which they have the right under law to do. Looks like the ball is in OSHA's court. Next?

Posted on: 2010/11/24 8:57


Re: What's in the 'frac' fluid???

Joined:
2008/8/24 20:26
From Mount Joy, PA
Posts: 2125
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Just saw this on WGAL.com:

http://www.wgal.com/news/25901948/detail.html

I'm sure the first of many that will occur!

Posted on: 2010/11/24 9:24


Re: What's in the 'frac' fluid???

Joined:
2009/4/1 21:52
From Johnstown, PA
Posts: 4458
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The first of what? There were several wells exploded and they could light their water with a match in Dimock , PA which was featured in the film Gasland , if you mean the first spring/well ruined from the Lycoming county spill then i apologize , if you mean the first report of an accident GOOD MORNING it's good to see you're up.

Posted on: 2010/11/24 10:58


Re: What's in the 'frac' fluid???

Joined:
2008/8/24 20:26
From Mount Joy, PA
Posts: 2125
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Oh, I'm aware there have been several accidents already. Perhaps I should have stated "another contamination". No need to shoot the messenger

Posted on: 2010/11/24 15:42


Re: What's in the 'frac' fluid???

Joined:
2009/4/1 21:52
From Johnstown, PA
Posts: 4458
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wgMiller...........i'd never shoot ya buddy but i might nudge you a little. To satisfy my own curiosity , is there anything drilling wise going on down there in the Mount Joy area? I'm pretty familiar with that area , i used to live in Elizabethtown and have Friends that moved from Johnstown to Mount Joy , god , it's got to be close to 30 years ago. My brother in law and one of my close friends got a job at Pennsylvania Malleable Foundry , they were both laid off Bethlehem Steel employees who later worked in Steelton. Donegal Springs Creek is where i cut my teeth fly fishing.

Posted on: 2010/11/25 8:40


Re: What's in the 'frac' fluid???

Joined:
2006/9/10 21:53
From Greensburg, PA
Posts: 13614
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Posted on: 2010/12/27 16:06


Re: What's in the 'frac' fluid???

Joined:
2009/5/29 6:40
From harlansburg
Posts: 4372
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has everything in it except eye of newt!!
I don't think I'd try drinking it, nor do I want it pumped past my well.
just read in the TU magazine that residents of some town in wyoming can't drink their water, and they are supposed to shower with the window open so they don't explode!! oh yeah, that sounds great. article says investigation is ongoing to determine if fracing is the cause.

Posted on: 2010/12/27 16:32


Re: What's in the 'frac' fluid???

Joined:
2009/10/15 13:45
From Eastern PA
Posts: 10220
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Quote:

bikerfish wrote:

just read in the TU magazine that residents of some town in wyoming can't drink their water, and they are supposed to shower with the window open so they don't explode!! oh yeah, that sounds great. article says investigation is ongoing to determine if fracing is the cause.


Ya, and the EPA is highly involved in this investigation so it is slightly less likely to get swept under a rug than a state investigation would be.

Posted on: 2010/12/27 16:34


Re: What's in the 'frac' fluid???

Joined:
2006/9/10 21:53
From Greensburg, PA
Posts: 13614
Offline
I read that article too. just a head shaker...The EPA seems to be using the Chromium 6 card to distract itself from the Marcellous elephant in the room.

http://www.sustainablebusiness.com/in ... /go/news.display/id/21646

Posted on: 2010/12/27 16:46



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