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Re: Blue Herons
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2006/9/9 9:29
From Monessen, PA
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I would suspect an eagle or osprey as they like to sink their talons into that area particularly.

Posted on: 2009/8/2 13:49
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Re: Blue Herons

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What did blue heron populations do before DDT was invented?

Posted on: 2009/8/2 15:21


Re: Blue Herons

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2006/9/13 10:18
From LV
Posts: 7194
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That there is such a thing as Liberal Media is a myth perpetuated by the right wing in this country. It started during the Nixon Years with his VP, Spiro Agnew. Hasn't stopped yet.
Don't know what they did before DDT, but they've been rebounding since DDT was banned.

Posted on: 2009/8/2 21:35
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It's time to stop stocking all wild trout streams no matter what Classification they are, and time to eradicate brown trout in some of our limestone streams and re-establish brookies in them.


Re: Blue Herons

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Chaz - I don't follow your political rants. Are you pro liberal media or anti-liberal media??

Posted on: 2009/8/2 21:46


Re: Blue Herons

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2006/12/3 21:01
From Mechanicsburg, Pa
Posts: 422
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How are you obtaining the heron eggs?

Posted on: 2009/8/3 12:26


Re: Blue Herons

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2006/11/2 8:50
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It's nice to see people taking an interest in conserving the blue herons. What do you suggest we do to help the cause?

Posted on: 2009/8/3 17:58


Re: Blue Herons

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2006/9/13 10:18
From LV
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open a season and only take the blue herons that have at least six points on their antlers. Seriously, though there were a lot of birds on the brink or near the brink, that if it were not for the ban on DDT would have headed into oblivion. Could you imaginea world without the eastern blue bird? There's no doubt in my mind that it's had a possitive impact on wild trout populations, though I've never seen any data on that.

Posted on: 2009/8/4 17:58
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It's time to stop stocking all wild trout streams no matter what Classification they are, and time to eradicate brown trout in some of our limestone streams and re-establish brookies in them.


Re: Blue Herons

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2006/9/13 10:18
From LV
Posts: 7194
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Spyder,
It wasn't a political rant per se, I was simply stating what I feel is the truth. I feel the media should be unbiased, I was raise that way.

Posted on: 2009/8/4 18:05
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It's time to stop stocking all wild trout streams no matter what Classification they are, and time to eradicate brown trout in some of our limestone streams and re-establish brookies in them.


Re: Blue Herons

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2008/11/4 15:20
From Upper Saucon, PA
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No offence to conservation, but more times than not we end up conserving the wrong item. We had to protect hawks, and what happens, hawks all over the place, rabbit and pheasant population down. We have to protect the herons, and what happens, now you can find them along almost every native trout stream, plus the stocked ones when they have fish in them. Maybe its time to look at conservation from a different direction, that being protecting what we hunt and fish.

Posted on: 2009/8/4 18:13
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Re: Blue Herons

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2009/5/8 22:48
From NW PA
Posts: 172
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You seem to misunderstand the predator/prey dynamic in a key way. Predator populations are never very high relative to prey populations, and when prey species decline, predator populations respond VERY quickly with starvation, or predators seeking new ranges. If you're seeing a lot of predatory animals, its because there happens to be a great deal of prey in that area. The comment about hawks- most of our PA hawks survive off of non-game species, and of course you see more hawks certain times, of the year, its called MIGRATION. Do you have any evidence at all that game bird or rabbit populations are declining, or any evidence that it has anything at all to do with bird of prey populations?
Herons belong in our ecosystem. If there are a lot of herons that indicates an abundance of prey species, and suprisingly enough there is a lot more than trout in our streams for herons to eat. Seeing a heron on a trout stream doesn't mean it's eating trout. Herons are opportunistic, and dace, chubs, suckers, frogs, mice etc. are all fair game. Be happy we have healthy enough ecosystems to support our predatory birds.
Maybe you're right though, maybe we should "manage (read:kill)" predators off so there is more game. How well has that worked for the deer herd in PA? Oh yeah, we had one of the mostly grossly unbalanced deer herds in the nation that was quickly eating itself into starvation and destroying our understory. Sure glad we killed off all of its natural predators. The conservation you speak of is exactly what most of the nation's game laws were 50 or 60 years ago, why promote backsliding?

Posted on: 2009/8/23 19:13


Re: Blue Herons

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2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
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Chaz, I agree media should be unbiased, but there is no such thing as completely unbiased. We are talking about something made by people, and judged by people, with varying backgrounds and opinions. Some stories are slanted to the left, others to the right, and biased people judge the bias of the organizations by how many of each category they run.

SonofZ3, your speaking about natural balance, which doesn't exist, due to natural variation. The classic predator-prey models are very simplistic as they don't take into account time of year variations, and other food sources. Of any species, the population is governed by the available food in the LEANEST times, as well as predation and pollution type stuff. You mentioned that deer are overabundant, so we'll use that example. In spring and summer, there's plenty of food available, if the whole year were like that then deer are underabundant. From a food perspective, its fall and winter that decides the population. Mast crop and, in farming country, corn, gives them enough fat to make it through the winter. If there's enough mast crop left they can eat all winter, provided the snow isn't too deep and crusted to get to it. Thus, the actual, biological carrying capacity in any location varies widely from year to year, based on the mast crop, farming practices, and snow depth (how long the snow stays deep is important too). The herd exceeds carrying capacities in years with a poor mast crop and/or a winter with snow cover for long periods, and we get winter kill. In milder winters or years with a strong mast crop, the actual deer herd doesn't even sniff the true carrying capacity of the forest.

As for predation, we'll use coyotes as an example. They take a pretty good number of fawns during a short time period in the late spring, when the fawns are vulnerable. Because its such a short time period of riches, and not the leanest one for coyotes, the availability of fawns has little effect on coyote populations. Coyotes don't count on deer for survival, but they'll take them when they can. Thus, they'll take about the same number each year. With a large deer herd, coyotes don't make much difference, there's just too many fawns for them to make a dent in that short of a time period. With a smaller deer herd, the same number of fawns taken by coyotes is suddenly a much larger percentage of the total, and it has a bigger effect on deer populations. There is no balance, but there is cause and effect. The effect of coyotes on deer population is greater when the deer population is smaller, the exact opposite of classic predator-prey models.

Back to herons. DDT may be playing a big part. But if its food availability, herons will do much better in low water situations, so their population is probably governed by the food available in the spring, when the waters are the highest and food will be leanest. The problem is that this is the exact moment when we feed them by the bucket full out of big white trucks, and since some of those fish can be hard to catch, we also stick hooks in their gills and release them to die for the herons to clean up.

Posted on: 2009/8/24 9:40


Re: Blue Herons

Joined:
2007/12/1 15:23
From wellsboro
Posts: 452
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[quote]
albud1962 wrote:
"We've been seeing herons everywhere we go," says Beth Fife. "The expanding population is really due to better water quality, more abundance of wetlands, everything."


Well yes and no. I think the Herons have discovered welfare in the form of the Pennsylvania Fish Commission. Think of it as unwed Heron mothers and trout welfare babies. As far as conservative bashing, please take a look how our illustrious liberal governor is selling our wild areas to the Oil and gas developers. I have a feeling we aren't going to fare any better with any administration. So whether the trib is conservative or the post gazette is liberal...


Albud, no offense, but your facts are way off base. As in DC, Harrisburg republicans are in with the gas and oil companies and it is the Republicans pushing for the lease of all DCNR lands over the next three years, not Ed Rendell. This is terrible for both the state and private landowners as it will put a tremendous amount of land on the market at once causing a decline in what landowners receive. Additionally, the DEP has yet to catch up with the land being developed right now. I don't care for Rendell, personally, but his only push with the Marcellus development was to tax it, something that the republican led legislature stopped, I wonder why?

On the topic of herons sure they eat some fish, but like several others have said the numbers of herons are dictated by the availibility of food if there is nothing else causing the population to drop.

Posted on: 2009/8/24 14:34


Re: Blue Herons

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2006/9/9 17:18
From lancaster county
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pcray,
Spot on!

Posted on: 2009/8/24 16:44
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Re: Blue Herons

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2009/8/22 19:40
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It is unfortunate that some people's idea of wildlife management is to manage a particular species for man's own peculiar benefit (deer, trout, etc.). If there's anything we've learned over the last 40 years is that nature can be very resilient if given a chance but it is an ecosystem. It takes all the critters big & small together to achieve this. The herons (and other species) are just following their biological imperative. I will stop and watch a heron stalk a fish or an osprey dive for a fish. I don't begrudge them a thing. I'm thankful we can still enjoy it. It just isn't the fishing or the hunting, it's the experience.

Posted on: 2009/8/25 19:30


Re: Blue Herons

Joined:
2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
Posts: 12919
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fly_doggie, I'll admit that people are a little short-sited in determining what is best for mankind's own benefit, and people need to be more educated about wildlife management. But whose benefit should we manage wildflife for? Any management decision you make helps some species and hurts others, so for the benefit of "nature" is not an appropriate response. And while this may not be true everywhere in the world, our ecosystem here in PA has been changed enough by man that it is no longer anything resembling its innate natural self, i.e. it is already, for all intents and purposes, irreversably man-made.

So I ask again, whose benefit should we manage wildlife for?

Posted on: 2009/8/25 19:56



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