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My Problem of Hooking Trout

Joined:
2012/3/22 8:26
From Couldn't Care Less
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Still have a smile on my face and every Saturday should be like this past one… great day, tons of fun and picked up a lots of good info. This was only my 3rd time fishing for trout exclusively as most of my time has been on the WW Neshaminy practicing my trout technique; have yet to fish with poppers. Fishing WW, those guys just bite and get hooked but from listening, reading and fishing; the trout on the LL (and other places fished hard) are very particular.

Is there a difference in trout located less fished areas?



Saturday, with the water clear & low, and my mending ‘perfected’ thanks to delta dog, I was able to see trout rise to my fly (beetles and ants with no lil luck on tricos). Some got close but turned away for whatever reason but four times what felt or looked like a taste, I couldn’t hook it. Not sure if it was my timing, my technique, or something else.

Is this just going to come along with more trout fishing experience and practice on the water mixed in with a lil luck?

Posted on: 2012/7/30 12:06

Edited by Stagger_Lee on 2012/7/30 12:23:00
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Re: The Problem of Hooking Trout

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2012/6/19 23:17
From MONTCO
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Quote:

Stagger_Lee wrote:
Still have a smile on my face and every Saturday should be like this past one… great day, tons of fun and picked up a lots of good info. This was only my 3rd time fishing for trout exclusively as most of my time has been on the WW Neshaminy practicing my trout technique; have yet to fish with poppers. Fishing WW, those guys just bite and get hooked but from listening, reading and fishing; the trout on the LL (and other places fished hard) are very particular.

Is there a difference in trout located less fished areas?



Yes. Most heavily fished areas, the fish become smart or warey at least. They've been there, done that. So they learn about what not to do, or take, just as you learn what to do and what to offer.

From talking with you, I gather you've never hunted for game. I popose that hunting for game and fishing for trout are similar. The hardest game to hunt in North America is the mature whitetail buck. He has seen, heard, and smelt it all and he's still alive. He could be within 15 yards of you and you'd never know it. The two of you could dance inside maybe 30 yards and you'd still never see him.

My guess is that "experienced" trout, like the mature buck, learn what to look for. So it's not just your fly and presentation, it could also be about what lead up to your fly being there. For instance, did you or your rod tip cast a shadow? Things like that could be causing the turn-aways. Trout/deer don't have to ID what the problem is, only that there's a problem and they are gone. The buck being more intelligent, sure, but the trout can learn enough to get by.

Years ago, Ridley Creek was said to be where a fly fisherman went to earn his/her Masters Degree. My guess is fishing pressure was a large part of why those trout were so hard to attain.

But what the hell do I know??? I can't cast worth a damn!

Posted on: 2012/7/30 12:34


Re: My Problem of Hooking Trout

Joined:
2008/7/31 11:22
From Southeast Pa.
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Some got close but turned away for whatever reason but four times what felt or looked like a taste, I couldn’t hook it. Not sure if it was my timing, my technique, or something else.

I used to have this happen to me many moons ago. Stagger, what felt like a take most likley was. What i've learned over the years is wait until the trout is on his way back down after you see it take the fly. Patience is hard to come by at that moment, because of visual.And yes I also think that trout in certain streams are alot more educated than in others. I have had trout at valley creek follow my drys backwards for several feet. Only to turn away at the last second or take it, and really get your blood boiling. This usually occurs in slower water. Hope this helps.

Tight lines

Posted on: 2012/7/30 14:24


Re: My Problem of Hooking Trout

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2012/3/22 8:26
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Quote:
Fmagician wrote:

What i've learned over the years is wait until the trout is on his way back down after you see it take the fly. Patience is hard to come by at that moment, because of visual.


My problem is, what I understand, if they take (took) they will reject it fairly quickly. Its that small window of time that causes me to want to hook it right away. Those WW fish just snap at it and its hooked. Trying to get that 'touch' is what I have to figure out, amongst other things

Posted on: 2012/7/30 14:43
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Re: My Problem of Hooking Trout

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2006/9/21 0:02
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Pressured fish will often reject the fly at the last split second - for whatever reason - and it looks like you're missing a solid take,

As for the delayed strike technique - I think there is merit to it when fishing directly downstream. But other than that, I still try to hook the fish immediately at the strike.

There has been much debate on this forum about the need to set to the hook. IMO, what is needed is a quick lifting of the rod.
A big problem I've seen with guys that I've taught to FF, is too much belly in the line between the rod tip and the fly. Any lifting in that instance just results in pulling the slack out of the line.
When I get these guys to remove that slack immediately after the cast - by stripping it in with their left hand - their hooking rates start increasing significantly

Posted on: 2012/7/30 21:31


Re: My Problem of Hooking Trout

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2012/6/19 23:39
From Newtown Square
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great post! As a new guy to fly fishing as well I am experiencing the same issue. I'm so fired up at that moment the trout shows that I am missing my hook set most times. Is it just inexperience or a truley experienced fish? Stagger Lee I hear ya. On Valley Creek I have watched fish fire up clear out of the water only to pull my fly right by my ear into a bush behind me. ;(. I'm obsessed with trying to get better and enjoy the occasional hook up that much more. It's refreshing to hear I'm not the only one experiencing the same growing pains durring this learning curve that appears to last a life time.

Posted on: 2012/7/30 21:49


Re: My Problem of Hooking Trout

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2006/9/13 10:18
From LV
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Pressured trout will reject the fly at the last minute, especially during a trico spinner fall. A long tippet is a must and it should be 7X. Often they will be keyed in on either the males early, or the females later. Saturday was a bit different, there were plenty of bugs in the air, but not many on the water. I'm not sure why, but it is probably related to the air temperature. It was in the 70's when I left the house at 530 am, usually trout will want it somewhat cooler during a trico spinner fall.

Posted on: 2012/7/30 21:57
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Re: My Problem of Hooking Trout

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2012/6/19 23:39
From Newtown Square
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Chaz would you say 6x is not small enough on Valley Creek?
A longer tippet 7x should help? I've been using a 9 foot 5x leader with 6x tippet after chewing up / snagging up my first few pattern changes.
Would you suggest a 9 foot 6x and adding 7x TIPPET as a suggested adjustment? Any feedback would be valued and appreciated.


Posted on: 2012/7/30 22:20


Re: My Problem of Hooking Trout

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2012/3/22 8:26
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Quote:
dryflyguy wrote:

A big problem I've seen with guys that I've taught to FF, is too much belly in the line between the rod tip and the fly. Any lifting in that instance just results in pulling the slack out of the line.
When I get these guys to remove that slack immediately after the cast - by stripping it in with their left hand - their hooking rates start increasing significantly

I do have to remember to do that. I was told that in the AM on Sat but in the late afternoon I was so concerned with mending correctly I may have forgotten to strip.

Posted on: 2012/7/31 6:09
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Re: My Problem of Hooking Trout

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2012/3/22 8:26
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Quote:
Chaz wrote:

Pressured trout will reject the fly at the last minute, especially during a trico spinner fall. A long tippet is a must and it should be 7X.

You guys set me up with the proper length and size tippet early in the AM. My problem there (something in need to work on) was my forward casting. Felt comfortable casting until I released the line, 50% of the time my tippet would be to bunched up when I presented the fly on the water. Have to work on stopping @ 10 and bringing the rod down correctly.

Posted on: 2012/7/31 6:23
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Re: My Problem of Hooking Trout

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wvuandy1 ... you should try to hit up the next newbie jam. I promise you will learn a lot and also have a great time

Posted on: 2012/7/31 6:26

Edited by Stagger_Lee on 2012/7/31 7:12:40
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Re: My Problem of Hooking Trout

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2011/4/20 8:08
From Phoenixville Pa
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IMO 7x is a must on valley. Once I moved to 7x I started catching more fish. I never went to 6x so 6 might be good too. some of the more experienced guys I know on valley fish 9x.

Also, I set the hook immediately after the take. The take, not the anticipated take. There were times when I first started that I was so amped that I would anticipate the take and set too early. If you wait for the fish to take the fly and then set the hook, IMO, there's a natrual delay that allows a proper hook set. As an experiment I've tried waiting a split second after the take to find that the trout already spit my fly. Slack line could definitely be a problem too as mentioned previously.

And then there's the presumed take as previously mentioned. There was a splash near my fly so he must of took it. Its rare but I've foul hooked fish that splashed at my fly but obviously didn't take it. You can usually tell that something is off by the fight only to find that you hooked him in the tail when you get him in the net.

Posted on: 2012/7/31 7:11


Re: My Problem of Hooking Trout

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2006/9/11 13:33
From Lehigh Valley
Posts: 3294
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Good Lord. This tippet size stuff is getting out of control!

Fish can see 6X.
Fish can see 7X.
Fish can see 8X.
Fish can see 9X.

Guess what - it doesn't matter! What DOES matter is drag - more specifically, micro drag. The kind you can't see easily, but it makes the fly drift in an unnatural manner. Fish can see this too, and THIS can and will affect their behavior.

The ONLY advantage to using tippet smaller than 6X is that it can be more supple than thicker tippet. This helps combat micro drag. Notice I said it CAN BE more supple.

The material your tippet is made of makes a bigger difference than the size of the tippet (to a point). Some brands of tippet are more supple than others. Using a more supple brand/material of tippet helps you combat micro drag.

Another method to combat micro drag is to use a longer length of tippet, rather than going to lighter tippet. This is a lot easier than trying to find the most supple tippet material.

Telling newbies to use 7X or lighter tippets is not a good idea, IMO. If they are having a hard time controlling drag, what makes you think they have the fish fighting skills to combat a fish on lighter tippet? Sounds to me like a good way to overstress fish by prolonging the fight.

As for the "experienced" guys using 9X tippet on Valley - they're not as experienced as you'd think.

The only (common) tippet manufacturer that makes 9X tippet is Varivas. Varivas' Super Midge tippet is their best, and strongest tippet in this size. Compare the size of the 9X to Rio Powerflex 8X....

Rio Powerflex Tippet:
5X = 0.152mm = 5 lb test
6X = 0.127mm = 3.4 lb test
7X = 0.102mm = 2.4 lb test
8X = 0.076mm = 1.5 lb test

Varivas Super Midge Tippet:
8X = 0.096mm = 2.05 lb test
9X = 0.086mm = 1.66 lb test




Posted on: 2012/7/31 8:17
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Re: My Problem of Hooking Trout

Joined:
2011/6/29 9:38
From Philadelphia
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Quote:

Heritage-Angler wrote:
As for the "experienced" guys using 9X tippet on Valley - they're not as experienced as you'd think.



You know I hardly ever disagree with you but I do disagree here about VC. I have fished those fish with 6, 7, 8 and 9X tippets and there are certain pools where 9X is a must. I won't even reply to the last part of your comment because it's not worth a reply.

I will agree that suggesting newbies use anything less than 6X is not the best idea. Tricos can be frustrating for those of us "not experienced as you think" guys, I can only imagine what's it's like for new guys. Don't put too much stock in lack of success on tricos, that will come with experience which apparently I have yet to gain, at least according to H-A anyway.

Posted on: 2012/7/31 8:25


Re: My Problem of Hooking Trout

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2010/11/5 14:26
From Albrightsville, PA
Posts: 1449
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Quote:

Heritage-Angler wrote:

As for the "experienced" guys using 9X tippet on Valley - they're not as experienced as you'd think.



I'd be somewhat inclinded to second the above, although Valley Creek trout can be difficult. However I've never used 9x on Valley. But I do agree the tippet size issue is a little crazy.

With Valley Creek the general rules of thumb are a stealthy approach, good presentation, and preventing drag. The fish there are pretty darn educated (have seen a ton of patterns) and very skiddish, although one can get within pretty close range of the trout in sections where the water is braided.

For record I've had many good days and some exceptional outings on Valley over the years only ever using 5x and occassionally 6x tippet. By the same token, I've also had humbling days as have those more experienced.

Posted on: 2012/7/31 9:04



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