Register now on PaFlyFish.com! Login
HOME FORUM BLOG PHOTOS LINKS


Sponsors

Browsing this Thread:   1 Anonymous Users



« 1 (2) 3 »


Re: Young Womans, Clinton County,9/30

Joined:
2006/9/9 20:09
From Harrisburg
Posts: 2194
Offline
Dear Pete,

You're still missing the point.

Back when you fished it they dumped trout into a bucket of spit because they had more than enough trout and spit buckets to go around.

They stopped stocking it as part of Operation Future and it became a very good wild trout stream. It didn't harbor many 20 inchers but it harbored wild brook and brown trout that made for many pleasant trips for myself and my friends. It wasn't our exclusive playground, but it was a nice place to play just the same.

For some reason the decision was made to resume stocking, that came about circa 2005-6 or so.

Now it's a place were I stop to piss while driving around.

They messed up a perfectly good place, and for what?

The knuckledraggers, that's who, and what.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

Posted on: 2012/10/7 17:38
_________________
"Then the coal company came with the world's largest shovel, and they tortured the timber and stripped all the land. Well they dug for their coal till the land was forsaken, then they wrote it all down as the progress of man."


Re: Young Womans, Clinton County,9/30

Joined:
2009/5/7 14:38
From Collegeville, PA
Posts: 250
Offline
It seems that the stocking of trout hurt the wild trout in YWC extra hard. One thing that I noticed about the stream, is that it has very little secondary holding lies. These are the types of areas that the wild trout tend to get pushed into by the stocked trout. if you look at the stream, you will found short areas that are obviously good holding lies, separated by long distances of shallow water that almost dry up during the dog days of summer. These shallow areas are where the wild trout have to try to survive. I think that if the stocking of trout was to stop, the wild trout would be able to live in the better holding lies, and the population would probably improve.

Posted on: 2012/10/9 23:49


Re: Young Womans, Clinton County,9/30
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
Posts: 9060
Offline
Quote:

TYoung wrote:
It seems that the stocking of trout hurt the wild trout in YWC extra hard. One thing that I noticed about the stream, is that it has very little secondary holding lies. These are the types of areas that the wild trout tend to get pushed into by the stocked trout. if you look at the stream, you will found short areas that are obviously good holding lies, separated by long distances of shallow water that almost dry up during the dog days of summer. These shallow areas are where the wild trout have to try to survive. I think that if the stocking of trout was to stop, the wild trout would be able to live in the better holding lies, and the population would probably improve.



I've never fished the stream, but I've noticed the same thing on many of the stocked wild trout streams. You can just about call where the wild fish will be vs. the stocked. The wild fish get pushed out of the prime lies and are moved into the more marginal water.

Posted on: 2012/10/10 7:58


Re: Young Womans, Clinton County,9/30

Joined:
2011/5/3 12:22
From South Lebanon Township, PA
Posts: 1944
Offline
Quote:

TYoung wrote:
It seems that the stocking of trout hurt the wild trout in YWC extra hard. One thing that I noticed about the stream, is that it has very little secondary holding lies. These are the types of areas that the wild trout tend to get pushed into by the stocked trout. if you look at the stream, you will found short areas that are obviously good holding lies, separated by long distances of shallow water that almost dry up during the dog days of summer. These shallow areas are where the wild trout have to try to survive. I think that if the stocking of trout was to stop, the wild trout would be able to live in the better holding lies, and the population would probably improve.


+1. This is a great post. I've never fished YWC, but I think this can be applied pretty globally (even to unstocked streams), and more so than any other factor is what separates average smaller freestone wild trout streams from the good and great ones. Any stream with a viable wild trout population will hold fish in its “good” lies/holes, and obviously some streams have more “good” lies/holes than others, but the streams that have better “marginal” habitat in between the good spots are the ones that produce the real high biomass numbers and tend to fish the best IMO.

Posted on: 2012/10/10 7:59


Re: Young Womans, Clinton County,9/30
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/9 19:16
From Dallastown, PA
Posts: 7087
Offline
I would be curious to know when was the last time it was surveyed.

During the controversial time when it was going to be stocked we learned that its wild trout population teetered between class A and B we were informed that it takes TWO consecutive surveys of Class A biomass to render a stream Class A (and the management of not being stocked) in contrast to the ONE survey of Class B to take it off the class A list.

This in itself is a defeating principle.

So if you have a stream that was Class A, having cleared the bar twice, then you are pressured to allow it to be stocked by a local Co-op only to find the next survey be Class B. Have a public meeting with stiff opposition to stocking, compromise by allowing them to stock it but prohibit harvest.

I would assume that any responsible agency would then be at least curious as to the effect of the stocking for scientific purposes. How did the wild trout respond to this management change?

YWC was thrown under the bus.

Posted on: 2012/10/10 9:44
_________________
Don't hit me with them negative waves so early in the morning. Think the bridge will be there and it will be there. It's a mother, beautiful bridge, and it's gonna be there. Ok?


Re: Young Womans, Clinton County,9/30

Joined:
2006/9/16 15:52
From Bucks County
Posts: 624
Offline
"YWC was thrown under the bus".

Amen! Cross Fork too. The truly sad part is the motivation behind it.

Posted on: 2012/10/10 10:48
_________________
Brook Trout are God's way of saying everything is going to be alright.


Re: Young Womans, Clinton County,9/30

Joined:
2006/12/3 21:01
From Mechanicsburg, Pa
Posts: 509
Offline
Quote:

joebamboo wrote:
All you purists and wild trout snobs keep staying away. It gives those of us who enjoy fly fishing for trout be they stockers or not more access to the streams!

Thanks Guys!

Obviously, you like catching deformed, Orc like,small,listless shadows of true trout. Not a snob, but a concerned fisherman seeing a resource squandered because someone has to have numbers over quality.

Posted on: 2012/10/11 6:49


Re: Young Womans, Clinton County,9/30

Joined:
2007/4/23 20:53
From Carlisle PA
Posts: 76
Offline
I flyfish for the pure enjoyment. Numbers do not matter.
I'm sure you know of many native streams that you can fish. No one twist arms forcing one to fish streams with stocker! Do you think you are a better man for your preference to natives?

Why is someone who chooses to catch trout regardless of them being native or stocked regarded as "Knuckle draggers" or somehow a lessor man?

Posted on: 2012/10/11 9:40


Re: Young Womans, Clinton County,9/30
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
Posts: 9060
Offline

Quote:

joebamboo wrote:
I flyfish for the pure enjoyment. Numbers do not matter.
I'm sure you know of many native streams that you can fish. No one twist arms forcing one to fish streams with stocker! Do you think you are a better man for your preference to natives?

Why is someone who chooses to catch trout regardless of them being native or stocked regarded as "Knuckle draggers" or somehow a lessor man?




Why?....unlike you, there are anglers that care more about fishing for (and often keeping) large numbers of easy to catch fish, rather than caring about conserving streams with suitable temps, water quality, cover, food, and spawning habitat. Having all the aforementioned makes a stream very special, and we should all fight to, at the very least, keep it that way, and at the very most, do something to enhance it.

There's certainly no sin to fishing for stocked fish, but in PA we are lucky to (still) have quite a few streams left that can support wild trout. Why would one want to stock such a stream when there are so many other streams that cannot support wild trout and are, or can be stocked?

Finally, from a strictly dollars and cents (sense!) standpoint, given the fact that the FBC budget is tighter with declining license sales and increasing costs, why add more streams or stream sections to the stocking list? If a decent population of wild fish can and do exist in YWC, why stock it?

IMHO, conserrving and enhancing wild trout fisheries is cheaper (and more rewarding for many anglers) than the cycle of constantly raising fish and stocking streams. Hey, wild fish raise and stock themselves!


Posted on: 2012/10/12 7:48


Re: Young Womans, Clinton County,9/30

Joined:
2011/7/6 12:30
From Ephrata, PA
Posts: 6505
Offline
Bingo.

Posted on: 2012/10/12 8:13


Re: Young Womans, Clinton County,9/30

Joined:
2007/4/23 20:53
From Carlisle PA
Posts: 76
Offline
From what I understand, the FBC will no longer stock streams in the Fall. Also, because of the decline in fishing license sales, I believe stocking will eventually be a thing of the past. Hopefully those streams that were normally populated with natives only will once again be the only option for fly fishing.

Flyfishing is the one activity where numbers and size should not matter!


Posted on: 2012/10/12 10:39


Re: Young Womans, Clinton County,9/30

Joined:
2008/9/12 12:41
Posts: 726
Offline
I don’t think it’s the stocked trout in itself that push the wild trout out of the best holes but rather the stocking of trout generally results in more fishing pressure in concentrated spots and the wild trout simple move to less pressured spots.

I watched this happen in the FFO section at Big Spring when it got hammered by anglers. There were no stocked fish but the constant hammering by anglers caused a lot of fish to move way downstream into the ATW section to get away from the fishing pressure.


Posted on: 2012/10/12 11:29


Re: Young Womans, Clinton County,9/30

Joined:
2006/9/9 20:09
From Harrisburg
Posts: 2194
Offline
Quote:

joebamboo wrote:
I flyfish for the pure enjoyment. Numbers do not matter.
I'm sure you know of many native streams that you can fish. No one twist arms forcing one to fish streams with stocker! Do you think you are a better man for your preference to natives?

Why is someone who chooses to catch trout regardless of them being native or stocked regarded as "Knuckle draggers" or somehow a lessor man?


Dear joebamboo,

Afish did a far better job explaining things than I ever could but as the person responsible for the knuckledragger remark I feel an explanation is owed.

A knuckledragger is the the type of person that feels since they pay a minimal price to occupy a camp on land leased from the State they are entitled to at minimum, a full stringer of trout everytime they fish, a nice 6 or 8 point 95 pound dressed buck, a turkey, or two, c'mon whose watching, and perhaps a bear.

Is everyone with a camp in the PA Wilds a knuckledragger? Thankfully, the answer to that question is no.

I just think that when you are enjoying your time in a place that you don't actually own and maintain your rights are minimal at best.

Follow the fish and game laws and you'll be OK, but do as they did when the meeting was held to resume stocking Young Woman's Creek and I'll always view you with contempt.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

P.S. There are streams within an hour or so of Hershey that are scenic and attractive streams to fish. The fish won't all be wild, but you'll catch enough to keep you coming back. If you'd like to know more send a PM.

Posted on: 2012/10/13 1:01
_________________
"Then the coal company came with the world's largest shovel, and they tortured the timber and stripped all the land. Well they dug for their coal till the land was forsaken, then they wrote it all down as the progress of man."


Re: Young Womans, Clinton County,9/30
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
Posts: 9060
Offline
Quote:

joebamboo wrote:
From what I understand, the FBC will no longer stock streams in the Fall. Also, because of the decline in fishing license sales, I believe stocking will eventually be a thing of the past. Hopefully those streams that were normally populated with natives only will once again be the only option for fly fishing.

Flyfishing is the one activity where numbers and size should not matter!




All true. Declining revenue result in cuts in stocking numbers and streams. I think it's a shame fall stocking is one of the first to be cut since it extends the trout season through the fall and winter for six months in streams without wild fish.

The numbers of fish being stocked both in the spring and fall is at an all time low. At some point the FBC will have to concede that stocking a few hundred fish to a few hundred anglers and allowing harvest of 5 fish doesn't add up to a quality experience for anyone.

I'm not against the harvest of stocked trout, but the reality is there's not near enough fish stocked to sustain open harvesting in 98%? of the stream miles stocked. The trout fishing "season" has gone from a few months now to a few weeks a lot of streams.

The PA trout anglers survey done by the FBC a few years back indicated that the majority of PA trout anglers would like to see more special regulation areas created in the State. I predict in the future we will hear more about "Fish for Fun" (remember that tag line?!), Catch and Release and Delayed Harvest. Tim's knuckle draggers will just have to trade in their stringers and nets for a pair of forceps.....bring it on!

IMHO, the PFBC will slowly shift from promoting the "great white fleet " and catch n' keep, to promoting fish for fun. And more important (to me anyway) is promoting the conservation and enhancement of wild trout fisheries in our state.

Posted on: 2012/10/13 7:49


Re: Young Womans, Clinton County,9/30

Joined:
2009/5/7 14:38
From Collegeville, PA
Posts: 250
Offline
Something has to give with the stocking program. The fish commission can't continue to stock fewer fish but continue to stock the same number of streams. Streams are being stocked with fewer fish, and it is obvious to many fishers that it is hurting the fishing experience. The commission has been shedding licence buyers for years, and this new problem is making things worse. This means that less revenue from licenses leads to less trout being stocked. The fish commission has to somehow stop the bleeding in order to keep the stocking program alive. They must find a way to keep their stocking cost down with out causing even more people to stop buying fishing licenses. The best way to do this is to concentrate their stocking on streams that can't produce a viable fishery on its own. That means that some streams that are borderline viable would have to stop being stocked. It would be accentual that the they very carefully choose what streams they stop stocking. They must make sure that there would be enough stocked streams spread out around the state that most stockie fisherman wouldn't be able to complain that they didn't have a nearby stream that they could easily pull out their share of stupid stocked trout.

Posted on: 2012/10/14 0:06



« 1 (2) 3 »



You can view topic.
You cannot start a new topic.
You cannot reply to posts.
You cannot edit your posts.
You cannot delete your posts.
You cannot add new polls.
You cannot vote in polls.
You cannot attach files to posts.
You cannot post without approval.

[Advanced Search]





Site Content
Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
Stay Connected

twitterfeed.com facebook instagram RSS Feed

Sponsors
Polls
Will you be fly fishing this autumn?
Yes
No
Thinking about it
_PL_TOTALVOTES
The poll will close at 2014/10/31 17:56
1 Comment





Copyright 2014 by PaFlyFish.com | Privacy Policy| Provided by Kile Media Group | Design by 7dana.com