Register now on PaFlyFish.com! Login
HOME FORUM BLOG PHOTOS LINKS


Sponsors

Browsing this Thread:   1 Anonymous Users



« 1 ... 4 5 6 (7) 8 »


Re: Elk Creek, Erie County PA 12/5/2009

Joined:
2007/1/2 11:55
From Bozeman
Posts: 19931
Offline
Quote:

surveyor06 wrote:
JasonS,

Im pretty sure its shuffling your feet, in hopes that you stir the pot so to speak putting aqautic worms, nymphs and such in the drift. This usually induces feeding downstream of this. Sort of a technique to make inactvie fish active. Someone correct me if Im wrong.


That's always been my understanding.

The san juan is an incredibly fertile desert tailwater. The bottom is filthy with aquatic worms, much like the bighorn.

When I was out west, I caught a few fish that I accidentally shuffled up. After standing in one spot for a bit, they would just pod up below you.

Posted on: 2009/12/21 17:15


Re: Elk Creek, Erie County PA 12/5/2009

Joined:
2009/6/3 22:34
Posts: 149
Offline
I started a new thread with the original report that started this mess. We should let this one die. I'm done with the pissing match. I don't care who's is bigger. Lets move on.

Posted on: 2009/12/21 17:16


Re: Elk Creek, Erie County PA 12/5/2009

Joined:
2008/5/5 11:06
From King Of Prussia, Pa
Posts: 1195
Offline
Quote:

surveyor06 wrote:
JasonS,

Im pretty sure its shuffling your feet, in hopes that you stir the pot so to speak putting aqautic worms, nymphs and such in the drift. This usually induces feeding downstream of this. Sort of a technique to make inactvie fish active. Someone correct me if Im wrong.


Thanks. I was thinking it was something along those lines. Last month I was fishing a class A (brownies). I was fishing a run and I noticed that water along the far bank (stream was probably 20-25ft across) was stained while the rest of the stream was crystal clear. I couldn't buy a bite but could see the trout going nuts in the hole. Couldn't figure out what was going on so I took a walk upstream. Came round a bend and found 3 ducks going to town on a redd. They were tearing it up and eating the eggs. I guess some of the eggs were being washed downstream and thats what was making the trout go nuts. Walked back down stream, threw on an egg and proceeded to pound them. I can see how the san juan shuffle could be effective, but I wouldn't do it. Now if a duck is tearing crap up, then game on. It's like an unexpected hatch.

Posted on: 2009/12/21 17:22


Re: Elk Creek, Erie County PA 12/5/2009
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/9 19:16
From Dallastown, PA
Posts: 7163
Offline
Gentlemen,

I have edited a few posts here of some words not appropriate for this forum or website. It is not useful or respectable to use such language to describe methods or fellow users. I am not interested in notifying each of the concerned parties so I did it here.

Please use restraint toward such behavior in the future. This is a public and popular forum viewed by many registered and unregistered users and it is the wish of the webmaster to have this website remain a place you could have youngsters or even your grandmother read.


Thanks,

Maurice

Posted on: 2009/12/21 17:48
_________________
Don't hit me with them negative waves so early in the morning. Think the bridge will be there and it will be there. It's a mother, beautiful bridge, and it's gonna be there. Ok?


Re: Elk Creek, Erie County PA 12/5/2009

Joined:
2007/5/21 10:47
Posts: 283
Offline
Except for the name-calling, I have to side with ramcatt on this one. If the fish is in a lie you don't think you can get a fly to, try it anyway. The worst thing that can happen is you lose a fly--big deal.

If you just can't reach them, leave them alone--they've earned it for the day.

I think the point the guy is trying to make (albeit in a rather abrasive way) is that we should all be out there for the experience. If you can't get them, learn from it and do it better next time.

Posted on: 2009/12/21 19:24


Re: Elk Creek, Erie County PA 12/5/2009

Joined:
2006/9/10 21:53
From Greensburg, PA
Posts: 13631
Offline
Quote:

YoughRiverGuide wrote:
Except for the name-calling, I have to side with ramcatt on this one.


Except for the name calling I don't think anyone would have made a big deal of it. That's the whole point.

Posted on: 2009/12/21 19:25


Re: Elk Creek, Erie County PA 12/5/2009

Joined:
2009/11/4 22:06
Posts: 735
Offline
Maurice
understand you have a job to do... but at the same time do you want people reading questionable angling practices that lead to a large amount of foul hook ups?? I wouldn't want my kids or grandmother reading about people jabbing at fish with sticks and harassing paired up fish....



For the record, i never called anyone any names... merely commented on some peoples actions

ygh
thanks
re-try your intro post... you sound like good peoples
PM me for cliff notes

tom
you need an eyepatch and a shoulder to sit on

Posted on: 2009/12/21 20:55


Re: Elk Creek, Erie County PA 12/5/2009

Joined:
2008/6/11 8:53
From Hanover
Posts: 206
Offline
I normally don't post, but had to on this one. Wow. Just wow. Really....herding fish? Now I know why I don't travel to that zoo aka "steelbow" fishing. I bet that tactic wouldn't fly out west (OR & WA) but here in PA. Doesn't surprise me at all. I'm with Ramcatt on this one.

Almost forgot, what's your favorite 5 wt.?

Posted on: 2009/12/21 21:47
_________________


Re: Elk Creek, Erie County PA 12/5/2009

Joined:
2006/9/10 20:44
From Room 109
Posts: 3143
Offline
So if I happen to kick a fish up on Penns or Spring Creek and it finds a new spot I should not cast to it ?

I have fished with the guys that are in question and I would have to say that they are not poor sportsmen in any sense of the word.

Posted on: 2009/12/21 23:12
_________________
One man’s plague is a another man’s hatch


Re: Elk Creek, Erie County PA 12/5/2009

Joined:
2006/10/18 15:46
From Patterson twp, Pa (Beaver Falls)
Posts: 6528
Offline
Sorry I just got back to this thread. Busy smoking my steelhead today.... hahaha... and to those who are wondering, no it wasn't any of the fish I hooked in the area where the fish were pushed, and it brings my grand total of kept fish from 2009 to 1.

I appreciate all of the conversation here. I did not see any of the pre-edited language but appreciate the mods taking care of it. I am not a one to hold a grudge and will not condem anyone for taking offence to my fishing practices.

To answer the question of "do fish take after being pushed", the answer is "sometimes". I believe that steelhead are used to moving, due to their spawning instincts and moving a fish doesn't make a huge impact on them compared to a "Penns brown" or "small stream brookie". Different circumstances call for different tactics. Minus using streamers, I don't recall too many "aggressive strikes" in my steelhead adventures. Especially when the water is low and clear like it was on Saturday. Most of the takes are either seen or very subtle especially when the water temps go down. I have no problem, as you can tell, with moving fish to catch them. I sometimes like the challenge of catching a difficult fish, but other times I just want to catch fish. Especially being with some new guys up there. I have done this practice before this weekend, and will do it again. I did no harm to any of the fish, minus the few foul hooked fish, which was due to the low water conditions, not my pushing of the fish. No fish was lined, snagged on purpose, or "poked with a stick". No Pennsylvania fish and game regulations were violated and I actually admited this practice to my preacher... who himself would have done it. I hope the sarcasm isn't too thick to wade through.

I do see how someone could have gotten offended by what I said was done while fishing, but really was it that bad? I've seen snaggers, fish being abused and released, verbal abuse on the stream and just ran into some jerks. I see no harm in what was done but you are entitled to your opinion. I hope this conversation doesn't turn you off of this site, because it is a great place to share stories and "techniques". I feel I am a good contributor to the site and don't want to make a bad name for what this site is. So lets all shake hands and be friends. If you ever want to go fishing I'm always looking for people to share a stream with.


Ryan

Posted on: 2009/12/22 0:22
_________________
www.risenfly.com




Re: Elk Creek, Erie County PA 12/5/2009

Joined:
2006/10/18 15:46
From Patterson twp, Pa (Beaver Falls)
Posts: 6528
Offline
Also to those who have an issue with "herding of fish", are any of you hunters? If so do you use doe urine, grunt calls, camo or do you think that even your presence in the woods has an effect on the path of a deer? Why should there be a double standard to fishing? The goal is for the deer to present himself in an ideal position to take a shot.....OR for the fish to be in an ideal position to take a fly or bait.

Posted on: 2009/12/22 0:30
_________________
www.risenfly.com




Re: Elk Creek, Erie County PA 12/5/2009

Joined:
2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
Posts: 13700
Offline
Ryguy, Yes I deer hunt, and we do put on organized deer drives. Of course, thats a different game because you aren't trying to make the deer eat during or immediately thereafter.

Ramcatt and others, I think this is a good topic to stir discussion during the winter months. I think/hope we're all mature enough to discuss our differences without resorting to namecalling. Nothing illegal was done, and the rest is just discussing our own personal ethics. While I have no problem with the actions of Ryguy, I also don't have issue with Ramcatt giving his opinions, provided they stay focused on the action and not the person.

Quote:
they are inbread hatchery lake run trout... but a less trouty than normal holdovers


All true. They are hatchery trout stocked as smolts, and I find little difference between that and fingerling stockings of other trout in many waters. Not quite wild, but nonetheless they've lived most of their lives in natural surroundings, with natural food sources, etc. "Less trouty than normal holdovers", true, but so are wild lake-run steelhead in the places where they are common. Steelhead do not act, in all ways, like trout, nor are trout any type of golden standard. Steelhead have very different feeding habits and instincts than regular trout.

Quote:
they winter in pools before going to gravel in spring


I saw no indication that these were wintering fish. At this time of year, many fish are still very actively on the move.

As for foul-hookups. So long as the goal remains for the fish to feed, and the occasional foul-hookup remains accidental, I have no issue with it. If you are changing tactics with the goal of foul-hooking more fish, then IMO that crosses the line. I'd agree that "herding" more often than not hurts the fishing, and it could be used to increase foul hooking. But I don't find it unlikely at all that there are exceptions, and that it can be a perfectly ethical technique. I've never intentionally done it, but I have seen numerous times where a steelhead gets agitated, but once they settle down a little they become aggressive. I have also witnessed "rocking". And breaking ice is a very well known and successful technique, to the point where some do it even if its not necessary to fish, because the action of wading through the hole "wakes up" the fish.

Posted on: 2009/12/22 9:56


Re: Elk Creek, Erie County PA 12/5/2009
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/9 9:29
From Monessen, PA
Posts: 22577
Online
I don't think I would employ any type of herding technique in my normal fishing routine, but do not see it as a big deal either. I've spooked enough trout on accident that it isn't going to shift the cosmic balance if I happen to spook a few on purpose. As for influencing others to do the same just because Ryan mentioned it here, I don't think that is a real worry, and, of course, having heard the other point of view, the reader can make up his or her own mind whether employing the intentional spook technique violates a universal standard of fishing ethics.

As was noted, it is similar to chumming, shuffling or stoning, none of which I personally do, except for perhaps an occasional shuffle for the benefit of a downstream fishing partner (if I am sure that no one with refined ethical standards is watching me).

Posted on: 2009/12/22 11:10
_________________
Nietzsche was stupid and abnormal.

-- Leo Tolstoy


Re: Elk Creek, Erie County PA 12/5/2009

Joined:
2007/5/21 10:47
Posts: 283
Offline
I, for one, always wade a tad recklessly to the bank if my clients are fishing donwstream.

Posted on: 2009/12/22 14:08


Re: Elk Creek, Erie County PA 12/5/2009

Joined:
2009/8/19 17:22
Posts: 1289
Offline
i think steelhead feed very similar to trout , i don't feel anyone fishing for them in the tribs are force feeding them , i could never get my hands arround their jaws to open em up to put my fly in there mouth , they swim way too fast for me to catch them ,either they want what you are offering or they don't plain and simple

Posted on: 2009/12/22 20:48



« 1 ... 4 5 6 (7) 8 »



You can view topic.
You cannot start a new topic.
You cannot reply to posts.
You cannot edit your posts.
You cannot delete your posts.
You cannot add new polls.
You cannot vote in polls.
You cannot attach files to posts.
You cannot post without approval.

[Advanced Search]





Site Content
Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
Stay Connected

twitterfeed.com facebook instagram RSS Feed

Sponsors
Polls





Copyright 2014 by PaFlyFish.com | Privacy Policy| Provided by Kile Media Group | Design by 7dana.com