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Re: Too hot to handle

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2006/9/11 21:48
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YRG...

One thing you want to do is get a copy of the Reservoir/Dam Operations Manual. You can do FOIA request with the Army Corps Dist office. Read that thing inside and out, learn what the limitations are with the reservoir and how the Corps is required to operate.

Good luck....if you need to bounce ideas off someone, let me know, send me a PM or email.

If all eventually works out and the fishery is improved and you can get greater populations of larger trout......don't think for a second Tom or Jack won't be fishing there in higher frequency than they already do.

Posted on: 2009/9/29 13:32


Re: Too hot to handle
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2006/9/9 9:29
From Monessen, PA
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As I mentioned earlier, I find the river a pleasant enough place to fish right now, so I doubt that any grand improvement, which I think unlikely, will make any difference to my fishing frequency. So, let's just say, I don't expect anyone to expend any effort on my behalf.

Posted on: 2009/9/29 16:06
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Re: Too hot to handle

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2009/9/24 15:02
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Got this info in relation to water conditions on the west branch of the Delaware over the weekend. The information came from Jim Serio through West Branch Resort and I'm thinking a lot of the same apply to the Yough Dam. It's probably why I saw a lot of algae and in the Yough River over Labor Day weekend.

The “muddy” conditions of the west branch is due to the high releases through the summer of 1500 cfs for spill/flood mitigation.

If you look at a temperature graph of Hale Eddy you can clearly see that the base line temperature has been going up for the last month or so. This is because we have exhausted the cold water that existed below the thermocline.



Through the winter, the reservoir settles and is essentially crystal clear by spring time.



Spring comes along and we get runoff and then a thermocline develops rather quickly. The cold clear winter water is below the thermocline. IT is usually about 70% of Cannonsville reservoir.



The water above the thermocline is lighter and continues to mix through the summer. There is very little mixing or even settling of water above the thermocline into the layer below.



Extra high summer releases have used up that 70% of the cold winter clear water.



What is coming out of the reservoir now is the thermocline and above water that has been mixing all summer. That water typically has more nutrients and light penetration too. What we all are calling “mud” or “dirty water” is actually a mixture of brown algae, dissolved solids, etc.



There is simply not enough cold water in the reservoir for releases as high as we saw this summer. That cold water layer does not recharge until the winter. The water is coming out of the dam at 55 degrees or so now.



I argued, to no avail, that the release should not go to 1500 from the old 1000 cfs for spill mitigation and that in fact capping the release at about 80-0 cfs on the West Branch would be better. This is one area that I think the flood groups and fisherman have a very different view.



In the summer a cap at 800 would preserve cold, clear water and still not substantially increase flood risk. Flood groups of course want the releases even higher that 1500 cfs when the reservoir is above 80%. 800 cfs is sufficient for mainstem protection. I would also cap Montague releases at 800. This would cause Montague to go below 1750, but there are other ways to make that up, if it is still thought to be needed.



Late winter and early spring is another story. As long as there is snow pack and we know the reservoir is going to spill, or at least fill, it makes sense to release the 1500 when the reservoir is above 95%. I again would cap that at 1000 or so, when the reservoir gets below 90%, but continue those releases to create voids of 20 – 35%, depending on snow pack. Average winter inflow to Cannonsville is about 900 cfs.


Posted on: 2009/9/30 11:15


Re: Too hot to handle

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2007/5/21 10:47
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Bam,

Thanks for the post--good info.


In short, you saw turbid water on the Yough for the same reason they're seeing it on the D, but there was no substantial reason for eating up the cold water supply on the Y. We didn't get nearly the amount of rain you guys had out east this summer, with the exception of June, and even then the flood storage capacity of our reservoir never exceeded 2%.

It's all very strange.

Posted on: 2009/9/30 13:38


Re: Too hot to handle

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2009/9/24 15:02
From Montgomery County
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YRG,

After visiting the folks in W. PA Labor Day weekend, I drove out RTE 40 to the DC area for work the following Tuesday. I couldn't believe how much water they let out of the dam. Some of the boat docks were literally laying on gravel 30 feet from the shore line. Not only are they hurting the tail water fishery, but what about the fish in the lake?

If you look at the water data below the dam, they're releasing 800cfs every weekend coupled with 6 weeks of 650+ cfs. No reason for that IMO.

Just curious, if I were to look at the Ramcat guage, what levels would you consider optimal for taking a drift boat on the middle Yough? Too high? Too low? Thanks.

We thought we were ok to float the WB of the D this past weekend, but they held back some at the last minute and we ended up pushing and rowing so much that I could barely move the next morning.

Posted on: 2009/9/30 14:55


Re: Too hot to handle

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Bam,

I sent you a pm.

Posted on: 2009/9/30 16:03


Re: Too hot to handle
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2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
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Bam, thanks for the info on the D. I always thought the murky water in the fall was caused by the natural turnover of the reservoir.

Posted on: 2009/10/1 6:07


Re: Too hot to handle

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2006/9/21 0:02
From Pittsburgh
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Bam,

Was the West Branch brown?
I went up there 2 years ago in early october - only to find it very muddy looking. I found out that they were dumping water out of the reservoir, so that it would have more hold back capacity over the winter and following spring.
I had no way of knowing that before I left. None of the fly shop web sites that I checked bothered to mention that little bit of info.
Needless to say, I was a little ticked, after driving all the way from pittsburgh.

Posted on: 2009/10/1 8:39


Re: Too hot to handle
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2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
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Dryfly,

I check the D River reports from Catskill flies. They pretty much tell it like it is. You can also call them for more details on hatches or flow before you commit to your 7-8 hour trip. BTW, the D fishing this season overall has been poor when compared to recent seasons.



The West Branch as of 7 a.m yesterday morning, Wednesday, Sept 30th, had a reported release rate of 360 cfs. This river remains off-color and will probably stay that way for some time. This river is at a decent wadeable flow. Streamers might be a good choice under the current conditions. The East Branch is now low but does have some decent Olives and Caddis hatches in the afternoon. A long leader is recommended over here. The Neversink- is in good shape. There are Caddis and Olives about. The Main Stem is at a normal flow for this time of year. Like other rivers, Olives and Caddis are the major hatches.

http://www.catskillflies.com/stream.html

Posted on: 2009/10/1 9:12


Re: Too hot to handle

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2009/9/24 15:02
From Montgomery County
Posts: 1585
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dryfly,

It was brown, and it sounds like they get similar conditions every fall, maybe a bit worse this year. I thought it might clear up the closer we got to the main stem but that wasn't the case. We did run into a few pods of risers, mostly small fish though. Our limited success came working the banks where the water ran a little clearer.

Posted on: 2009/10/1 15:35


Re: Too hot to handle

Joined:
2006/9/21 0:02
From Pittsburgh
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thanks guys.
I was told - 2 years ago - that this would be a regular water plan for the fall. Guess it was true.

Afish: I've always checked Delaware River Club and West Branch Anglers websites. I'll have to check out the one you suggested

Posted on: 2009/10/2 0:46


Re: Too hot to handle -- fish kill?

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2008/6/25 9:41
From Pgh
Posts: 1235
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Did anybody hear about an unusual high number of trout deaths during the last stocking below the dam? I was talking to a local resident yesterday and he mentioned it. Of course it is hearsay at this point. But obviously coincides with this thread.

Posted on: 2009/10/4 9:37
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"I used to like fishing because I thought it had some larger significance. Now I like fishing because it's the one thing I can think of that probably doesn't." --John Gierach


Re: Too hot to handle

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2006/9/10 21:53
From Greensburg, PA
Posts: 13624
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I fished right after the last stocking and didn't see any dead ones. Seemed like there were a bunch in there as well. Water was 65 until the afternoon. I don't put much stock in hearsay. Temp isn't the only thing that can happen to trout either.

Posted on: 2009/10/4 13:50


Re: Too hot to handle

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2008/6/25 9:41
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Tom,
Yeah, the guy who mentioned it to me could talk the ear off an African elephant. That's why I was doubting the story's validity. And why I thought I'd ask on the board.

Posted on: 2009/10/5 13:47
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"I used to like fishing because I thought it had some larger significance. Now I like fishing because it's the one thing I can think of that probably doesn't." --John Gierach



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