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Re: Toothy Critter Success Thread

Joined:
2012/11/18 18:58
From Wyoming
Posts: 42
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Wow. Those flies are huge. And it looks like there is like $20 worth of material in those. haha. By the time I get a better vice, hopefully my tying skills will be better so I can tie stuff like that. And is it true the uglier the better? I was told that on another forum regarding larger toothy flies. Also, would i be able to just take the crafting eyes off one and connect it to make one fly out of two while adding feathers and such over the eye of the other hook?

Posted on: 2012/11/26 21:52


Re: Toothy Critter Success Thread

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2010/1/7 0:41
From "THE VILLE"
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I use two hooks in my flyes not so much as a stinger but for action and length. If tyed right a tandem swims like a jointed rapala.

In all my toothies 2 were taken on a single hook pattern. But they have there place too. Sometimes due to water clarity & they just get locked in on a smaller prey item.

In my opinion when they strike a prey item they prefer to take it broadside. They hold it shake it and position it in there mouth for a head 1st swallow. My small flys are 7 to 8 inches and my triples can get upto 14 inches long.

Posted on: 2012/11/26 22:24
_________________
“If, when you pull a fly out you
don’t hear drums and can’t smell
chicken blood in the air, put it back
in the box, for if it is evil you seek,
then it can only be conjured with the
same.”



Re: Toothy Critter Success Thread
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2006/9/9 17:32
From Gettysburg
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Quote:

zfisher wrote:
Also, would i be able to just take the crafting eyes off one and connect it to make one fly out of two while adding feathers and such over the eye of the other hook?


Yep - that would work.

I use #60 wire to connect the sections of muskie flies. Is your vise designed for small trout flies? I use my regular vise for big salt and WW flies and it works fine. You don't need massive hooks. In fact, I've gone a bit smaller in my muskie fly hooks as I've found you get better hookups with bass. Smallies love muskie flies. Paco and others have suggested that they don't get them very often (I suspect this is due to their use of larger flies than I typically use) - in my experience, SMBs, esp in summer and fall, will just crush muskie flies in the 6-8" range. Bigger hooks were missing these bass so now I generally use hooks designed for soft plastics and rubber worms in sizes 1/0 to 3/0. You don't want to go too small. Again, look at muskie lures in stores. The trebles aren't huge but usually made of pretty beefy steel.

Posted on: 2012/11/27 8:00


Re: Toothy Critter Success Thread

Joined:
2011/2/15 17:20
From Philly
Posts: 654
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Quote:

Fishidiot wrote:

How big was he compared to the fly? I've caught small muskies on flies that were almost as long as they were.


Never even measured the fish...I would say it was mid-20"s tops. So the fly was probably at least 1/4 of its body length. Tis the season to fatten up!

On the vise/hook size issue...I almost forgot that I broke my starter vise when transitioning to bigger hooks (saltwater flies as well...not just musky). Was just the wrong tool for the job (I'll add that I haven't had a single problem with my replacement).

Just something to be aware of.

Posted on: 2012/11/27 8:55


Re: Toothy Critter Success Thread

Joined:
2012/11/18 18:58
From Wyoming
Posts: 42
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"Is your vise designed for small trout flies?"

yes, it was the $20 vice that came in a beginners kit from cabelas.

Posted on: 2012/11/27 9:18


Re: Toothy Critter Success Thread

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I started with tandem 3/0. Sure they caught a musky. But bumping up the size you get more attention from the bigger fish. But no loss of productivity from smaller toothies. When im musky fishing i dont care anout hooking smallies, eyes or largemouth. . So basically I'm geared for the big bite. But everyone has there own technique and ideas.

Posted on: 2012/11/27 10:33
_________________
“If, when you pull a fly out you
don’t hear drums and can’t smell
chicken blood in the air, put it back
in the box, for if it is evil you seek,
then it can only be conjured with the
same.”



Re: Toothy Critter Success Thread

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2010/4/22 11:22
Posts: 189
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check out Vermont Fly Guys, Fly Obbsession, and Great Lakes Fly. You cant get a lot of ideas from those three.

Posted on: 2012/11/27 12:11


Re: Toothy Critter Success Thread

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2012/1/31 11:35
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Jay awesome fish. Glad you got into another one

Posted on: 2012/11/28 11:37


Re: Toothy Critter Success Thread

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zfisher, if you are looking into catching pike or musky I would go much bigger than what you are tying. The flies look nice but are on the small side. I personally would tie nothing smaller than 3/0. Even with the bigger flies you are going to get bonus fish such as walleye smallies, and largemouth. You likely will not catch as many with a tandem 6/0 as you would with a single 3/0 or tandem 3/0 but you are triggering responses from the bigger fish (36" or better). Dont get me wrong the bigger fish will eat smaller flies but the smaller fish will definitely eat bigger flies as well. I have caught 2 foot pike on 15" triples. Tie as big as you can comfortably cast and build yourself up to bigger stuff.

Posted on: 2012/11/28 11:42


Re: Toothy Critter Success Thread

Joined:
2012/11/18 18:58
From Wyoming
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TD55, and everyone else, thanks for the advice. If i can find 3/0 hooks that will fit in my vice, I will tie on them. I'm heading to a shop this afternoon to see if i can find thinner ones, and if I can't, I'll order some online.

some more questions, I'm a little confused about the leader and tippet thing, do I need a wire leader or not? And if so, what lb. test should it be? The tippet I'm guessing would be wire or strong mono? I read that the wire deters other fish like the smallies and walleye which I would prefer to catch. I also think I read somewhere that you could use like 80 lb. mono, but also read something about using 25 lb. mono so the line would snap before the rod.

Thanks in advance

Posted on: 2012/11/28 15:04


Re: Toothy Critter Success Thread

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2012/1/31 11:35
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As far as the hook issue you are having I know it's gonna cost you some more money but upgrade to a better vise if you want to tie the bigger stuff. Peak vises are great, made in the USA and worth every penny. You can get the saltwater jaws along with the standard jaws I think for an additional $30. The vise itself is $150.

As for the leader. You can use either wire or flourocarbon. Flourocarbon is more abrasion resistant than regular mono. Wire will definitely hold up to fish teeth but will kink and can even sometimes break although rare. Flourocarbon is what I use. 80lb. I have had 2 biteoffs in 2 years. It is typically going to be the smaller fish with sharper teeth that cut you off and it is almost always going to be right away as soon as you get weight. But you will have a better chance of what I call the bonus fish. If you talk to musky guys I would say it's half and half who use flouro or wire. Even the terminal tackle guys use flourocarbon leaders too. With flourocarbon I have caught 20 inch smallies and plenty of walleye up to 29".

My leader setup is this.

- 3-6" of 25lb flourocarbon for a break point if I get hungup in a log or something. This is nail knotted to my fly line

- 3 1/2 to 4 feet of 40 to 50lb flouro with a big loop (2") on the end. The connection between the 25lb and 40lb is a blood knot

My 80lb flour is attached to the fly with a loop on the leader end so that I can change out flies easily loop to loop.

I use the smaller diameter instead of the heavy 80 as the terminal part of my leader so that I can get the majority of the leader up into the guides smoothly so that I can figure 8 my fly. typically you only have about 12 inches of leader out when doing this. If you have straight 80 the big knots will get hung up in the guides and may cost you a fish or worst break your guides.

Hope this helps

Posted on: 2012/11/28 15:23


Re: Toothy Critter Success Thread

Joined:
2011/2/15 17:20
From Philly
Posts: 654
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Quote:

TD55 wrote:
- 3-6" of 25lb flourocarbon for a break point if I get hungup in a log or something. This is nail knotted to my fly line


^ I need to do this ^

Got hung up on a submerged branch a couple weeks ago. I was clinging to a branch over cold, who-knows-how-deep river water trying to wiggle my fly out with my free arm. Somehow, I saved the fly; but it probably wasn't the smartest of moves considering I was fishing alone.


Posted on: 2012/11/28 16:17


Re: Toothy Critter Success Thread

Joined:
2011/2/15 17:20
From Philly
Posts: 654
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FI, what all is going on in the olive fly in your last pic? It looks awesome, but I can't tell what the materials are...any chance for a recipe?

Posted on: 2012/11/28 16:18


Re: Toothy Critter Success Thread
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2006/9/9 17:32
From Gettysburg
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Sure Jay, I'll post a recipe probably tomorrow or the next day. I'll start a fresh thread here in the WW forum with the recipe/info.

Posted on: 2012/11/28 19:40


Re: Toothy Critter Success Thread

Joined:
2012/1/31 11:35
Posts: 157
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Jay
I have learned the hard way to do the break point. Most fly lines have breaking strengths of about 35 lbs. When you have 80lb tippet the fly line breaks instead. It sucks to lose a fly but it sucks worst to ruin an $80 line. It has saved me several times.

Posted on: 2012/11/28 20:01



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