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Re: Lower Susky closure for spring bass fishing rescinded.

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I think catching smb off of their spawning beds is even easier than lining steelhead or brown trout off of their redds.

Posted on: 3/4 14:32


Re: Lower Susky closure for spring bass fishing rescinded.

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In the link to the article above Mr Wnuk was referring to the stretch of the Susquehanna commonly known as the North Branch, which is the stretch that he covers.

Posted on: 3/5 7:52


Re: Lower Susky closure for spring bass fishing rescinded.

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Quote:
Sorry but not sorry, the same can be said for the lower river.
Catch rates of smallmouth have increased on the upper river while larger fish are increasing.
The lower competition attributing to larger fish in this case is hogwash.


I'm well aware the stretch of river being an avid susquehanna angler for years.

You can convince me that seperate rivers are not comparable to eachother, you can even convince me in some cases that separate stretches of the same river are not comparable but this is not what you indicated in the post you edited.

You tried to say lower competition lead to increase size of fish.

Yet the upper river has great numbers and more larger fish. The lower river numbers are climbing and so is the size.

For your statement to be true the lower river would need to be at it near carrying capacity and stunting the fish in the past.
You and I both know that is simpily not true

Posted on: 3/5 9:05


Re: Lower Susky closure for spring bass fishing rescinded.

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Individuals have probably heard the phrase; " Nature abhors a vacuum." Fish do not have to be stunted in growth in order to respond favorably to reduced competition and resulting increased food supply. Fish growing at average Pa rates (quite acceptable rates) can accelerate their growth under such conditions just as fish in new environments often grow rapidly at first and then slow to average growth rates later on. They are not stunted; their growth just slows to normal rates as food supply diminishes or intraspecific or intertspecific competition increases.

Posted on: 3/6 11:22

Edited by Mike on 2019/3/6 12:13:08


Re: Lower Susky closure for spring bass fishing rescinded.
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Quote:

Mike wrote:
Individuals have probably heard the phrase; " Nature abhors a vacuum." Fish do not have to be stunted in growth in order to respond favorably to reduced competition and resulting increased food supply. Fish growing at average Pa rates (quite acceptable rates) can accelerate their growth under such conditions just as fish in new environments often grow rapidly at first and then slow to average growth rates later on. They are not stunted; their growth just slows to normal rates as food supply diminishes or intraspecific or intertspecific competition increases.


In addition to this well documented phenonema, I wonder how forage base may (or may not) be part of the equation in the lower Susky bass size and population structure. Rusty crayfish are well established there, but I don't know how long this has been the case.
Anyone who wade fishes this section of river on summer evenings knows that the biomass of crayfish that appears in slack water areas is tremendous - sometimes it seems as if you're literally kicking up herds of the critters with every step.

Mike: Do we know when rustys, or other invasive crayfish, appeared in this section of river? I have read and heard - perhaps on this board - that a theory exists that the large numbers of crayfish are influencing bass numbers and growth by providing so much food. I have also heard that juvenile flatheads also eat a lot of crayfish. Do you have any data, links, or a personal opinion on this you'd care to share?

Posted on: 3/6 13:21


Re: Lower Susky closure for spring bass fishing rescinded.

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So if I understand you correctly, which is what I knew you were driving at to begin with, you honestly believe the Susquehanna didn't have enough food supply for the adult bass to grow to the sizes and frequency they are now without less competition?

I find that really really hard to believe.

Edit:
Now I see I got what you are saying all wrong.
So the question becomes is it the regulations or this new environment.
I guess we will never know, if it tapers off we can then use only conjecture to explain it because the environment will settle and the regulations will change at the same time.
Shame.
You had a good case study going.

Posted on: 3/6 14:32


Re: Lower Susky closure for spring bass fishing rescinded.

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Anecdotal evidence isn’t much help in reality, but I can say that the overwhelming majority of bass I catch in this section of the river are on some kind of crayfish imitation. Fly or spinning gear. Fly, rubber, crank bait, it doesn’t matter. Crayfish outperform all other offerings.

Posted on: 3/6 15:47


Re: Lower Susky closure for spring bass fishing rescinded.

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Catching bass, or any fish for that matter, off of reds/while they are spawning just doesn't seem like a good idea. Lifting regs that will enable this, especially on a river that has seen massive kill-offs in the recent past, just doesn't seem like a great/logical idea. But I just teach English and write poems few people read so what do I know :)

Posted on: 3/6 17:24
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Re: Lower Susky closure for spring bass fishing rescinded.

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I think the number one reason for lifting the closed bass season on the Susky was the PFBCs inability to enforce the reg. How do you prove someone is out there fishing for smallmouth rather than Walleye or catfish or whatever? It doesn't stand up in court so I believe that is the main reason for doing away with the regs. The only people to blame for this is ourselves, the PA angling public. It's honestly no different than the trout guys who wade up and down the middle of our wild trout streams and stomp on redds and harass the fish while they are trying to spawn. It ultimately will come down to whether we make the personal choice not to fish for the fish while they try to make babies. Opening the Susky to fishing during the spawn will have a negative impact... how much of a negative impact? Who knows... but this does nothing positive for the fishery no matter how you slice or dice it.

Posted on: 3/7 9:36
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Re: Lower Susky closure for spring bass fishing rescinded.

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Are there flatheads in good numbers on the susky? I feel the presence of flatheads really had a negative impact on the smallie population in the Skuke

Posted on: 3/7 10:21


Re: Lower Susky closure for spring bass fishing rescinded.

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I don't think flatheads have the first thing to do with depleting smallmouth. The New River in Virginia is smack full of flatheads, but it still has one of the best smallmouth populations in the nation.

Posted on: 3/7 10:29


Re: Lower Susky closure for spring bass fishing rescinded.
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Quote:

SurfCowboyXX wrote:
I don't think flatheads have the first thing to do with depleting smallmouth. The New River in Virginia is smack full of flatheads, but it still has one of the best smallmouth populations in the nation.


Quote:

timmyt wrote:
Are there flatheads in good numbers on the susky? I feel the presence of flatheads really had a negative impact on the smallie population in the Skuke


^ agree with Surf above, about the Susky

But I also agree with TT above about the Skuke. Flatheads have had a negative impact on the smallie population in that River.

Mike is an expert on the Skuke. Maybe he will read and comment.

Posted on: 3/7 11:40


Re: Lower Susky closure for spring bass fishing rescinded.

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I think both can be true also, flatheads may have had a negative effect on the skuke and not the river that Surf Cowboy mentioned due to other differences in the eco system and/or other factors.

On the skuke for sure a favorite tactic of the slobs who chased flatheads was using smallies for bait. That tells me two things, a lot of smallies are probably being removed illegally and the flat heads in the skuke like to eat smallies

I was hoping to hear Mikes take on the Skuke too

Posted on: 3/7 13:01


Re: Lower Susky closure for spring bass fishing rescinded.

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There are plenty of flatheads out there in the Susky. Channel cats out the whazoo too. Crayfish infestation? You betcha. If you find the right piece of water, the cats come right in to shore and vacuum up the crayfish. Pretty cool to watch and unnerving to wade through in the dark. Nothing like spooking a half dozen 8-10# cats and having them flee in full panic mode..... bouncing off your shins in the process.

Posted on: 3/7 19:34
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Re: Lower Susky closure for spring bass fishing rescinded.

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Quote:

krayfish2 wrote:
There are plenty of flatheads out there in the Susky. Channel cats out the whazoo too. Crayfish infestation? You betcha. If you find the right piece of water, the cats come right in to shore and vacuum up the crayfish. Pretty cool to watch and unnerving to wade through in the dark. Nothing like spooking a half dozen 8-10# cats and having them flee in full panic mode..... bouncing off your shins in the process.


Gotta love wading the susky you never know what may happen

Posted on: 3/8 6:09



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