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Re: 2018 Fly Fishing for Snakeheads and Bowfin success thread

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2006/9/9 22:43
From Delaware Co.
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Has there been any introduced species that a biologist said that they werent worried about that they will out compete resident fish populations and what is the outcome almost 100% of the time . Like I said before let’s take a look at what the state stocks every year now what makes that different them and snakeheads. Just because the state stocks them doesn’t make it any better . They have been in the Potomac for TWENTY YEARS do you think it’s a killing spree on snakeheads down there that keeps the population in check .

I mean I’m going to go to all the invasive brown trout fisheries and eat them to help resident fish because they are most invasive fish in the state.

After that I’m heading up to Erie to save the resident fish in Lake Erie from steel head .

After that I’m going to the upper Delaware to save the shad and eel frye because the invasive trout up there are eating them all,there were trout harvested that had shad Frye and elvers in their stomach contents .

All I’m saying is don’t be a sheep or a hypocrite go out and fish for them be your own eyes and ears .





Posted on: 7/11 16:29
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Re: 2018 Fly Fishing for Snakeheads and Bowfin success thread

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It’s interesting. My snakehead catch got a comment from a very non-fishy friend who said “I know you didn’t kill it but you should have.” Well, it’s a life and I’m not going to kill it if I’m not going to eat it.

Honestly, I’d love to try one, but F eating anything that came outta the water where I caught it. It’s practically a sewer. If anyone is interested in where, feel free to PM me - it would be cool to see another fly guy there. Honestly the presence of snakeheads makes the body of water that I caught it more interesting and a better fishery in my opinion, along with all of the invasive carp that it is loaded with :)

That being said, If it was in a pretty little trout stream you bet it woulda got bonked 100 times over, no question.

Posted on: 7/11 18:46


Re: 2018 Fly Fishing for Snakeheads and Bowfin success thread

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Catch & Release Regs for Non-Native Trout: A good thing
Catch & Release Regs for Non-Native Susky Bass: A good thing
Catch & Release Angling for Non-Native Snakeheads: No no no don't do that!!!

Now, the non-native trout, and the bass, musky, walleye, etc. populations (where they aren't native, so outside of the OH R. and Erie drainages) are here to stay. There's no getting rid of them, so for the purposes of managing a sport fishery it makes sense to have special regs, encourage catch and release, selective harvest, all that stuff. And from what it seems like, snakeheads aren't going anywhere either. At this point, if you're going to suggest the killing of snakeheads where they're already well established, you better also suggest killing the precious brown trout and bass.

I totally get that if the population isn't yet established well, and there's still hope for their eradication, then yeah.....keep 'em all. But it seems like we're past that point with the snakeheads, in certain areas. We should still try our very best to stop their spread.

There's a biologist report where the PFBC encourages the harvest of non-native chain pickerel at a certain lake, yet just down the road they dump brown trout on top of wild brookies. Can't have it both ways....

It's just funny how we as a society pick and choose which fish are "ok" and which aren't. It's ok for non-native bass to eat native fish, but not ok for snakeheads to eat native fish.

Posted on: 7/11 20:50


Re: 2018 Fly Fishing for Snakeheads and Bowfin success thread

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You guys just conveniently forget about the balance of nature thing. A healthy fishery is a healthy fishery. It's not just a healthy snakehead fishery. Every biologist on the potamic cites angler harvesting as being a main factor in controlling them. Nobody is talking about eradicating them, another fact convenietly overlooked. I'm not a biologist or any kind of fish expert just as I'm not a doctor or a law expert. I listen to what my doctor and lawyer say and I listen to what the snakehead experts say.

Frederick, I'm sure fishing for snakeheads is a blast. Yes I have future plans of trying to catch a few but that doesn't mean I will profess my love of snakeheads and only want to fish for them. I happen to like variety. When the experts say there's no need to kill them then I will listen and not kill them. It's all about balance and a healthy fishery.

Posted on: 7/12 1:20


Re: 2018 Fly Fishing for Snakeheads and Bowfin success thread
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Below is a bulletin about snakeheads posted today on the PFBC site in SE Fishing Report section. I guess they are gathering data to assess the status of the population in the area waters.

JULY 11, 2018
Philadelphia County

There have been many reports of Northern Snakehead fish being caught and/or seen in the Philadelphia area. Most of them have been caught historically at FDR park in the lakes; however we have been receiving reports from the Delaware River and Schuylkill Rivers as well. If you believe that you have come across one, please take a photograph of the fish and contact the PA Fish and Boat Commission via our website at http://www.fishandboat.com/Fish/Penns ... shes/Pages/Snakehead.aspx and report the fish at the contact information provided there.

Make sure you include the county, body of water, average size of the fish and if possible, a photograph. Please be aware: you cannot possess live snakeheads in the Commonwealth. They must be killed immediately.


Link to source: http://www.fishandboat.com/Zone1/Pages/SERegionReports.aspx

Posted on: 7/12 9:19


Re: 2018 Fly Fishing for Snakeheads and Bowfin success thread

Joined:
2006/9/9 22:43
From Delaware Co.
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More creative wording from the PFBC to scare the public . Here are the updated Regulations

PA REGULATIONS
It is unlawful for a person to sell, purchase, offer for sale or barter live Snakehead species in Pennsylvania.
It is unlawful to possess live Snakehead species in Pennsylvania.
It is unlawful to introduce or import live Snakehead species into Pennsylvania waters.
Transportation of live Snakehead species in or through Pennsylvania is prohibited.

Posted on: 7/12 10:03

Edited by Fredrick on 2018/7/12 10:20:08
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Re: 2018 Fly Fishing for Snakeheads and Bowfin success thread

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2006/9/10 21:53
From Greensburg, PA
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More science denial. Relax Fred, you can still fish for them.

Posted on: 7/12 11:43


Re: 2018 Fly Fishing for Snakeheads and Bowfin success thread

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Coming from strictly a cold water guy who doesn't even nymph, let alone fish for bass, carp or snakehead I agree with Fred.

The fear of invasive species is waaay overblown. A while ago I was interested in what species were native to the great lakes so I bought a few books. Its hard to discern what is native because the drainage itself is dynamic.

Zebra mussels, gobies, eurasian milfoil, etc. were all going to decimate the great lakes, I'm still waiting for it to happen. Atlantic Salmon were extripated from the lower great lakes because of habitat - building dams in nearly every trib. Blue pike are gone and it's a mystery why.

If anyone thinks snakehead are going to eliminate striped bass and eels from the Chesapeake watershed, more power to you. Get out and start killing snakehead. You're not really hurting the snakehead pop or helping the striper and eel pop, but hopefully it makes you feel good. It's pretty funny that fred catch and releasing snakehead offends people.

I'm about as afraid of snakehead as I am global warming (not at all).

Posted on: 7/12 16:28


Re: 2018 Fly Fishing for Snakeheads and Bowfin success thread

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Quote:

poopdeck wrote:
You guys just conveniently forget about the balance of nature thing. A healthy fishery is a healthy fishery. It's not just a healthy snakehead fishery.


Yes, that's absolutely a good point. But what exactly determines if the fishery (with non-natives) is "healthy" or not?? Variety, and presence of stable native populations would be the obvious answer. Each fish having their own niche, the whole food web thing, etc..

Or, in some cases, is the "health" of a fishery determined by angler preference? ......"A healthy fishery is a healthy fishery. It's not just a healthy brown trout fishery.".....

If a non-native species is the dominant "sport fish" in a given body of water, does that REALLY mean the fishery is healthy, when a native fish (whether it be brook trout, or something else) would have otherwise been there instead?? Again.....angler preference. Is the Susky healthy with all those smallmouth bass? Are the native fish better off without them? Then you have situations like the upper Delaware where things are very out of wack (not saying that's a "bad" thing, but it sure isn't natural). Places like the Central PA limestoners shouldn't be chock full of brown trout, and the Erie tribs shouldn't have unnaturally crazy high numbers of steelhead fall through spring. If anything is unbalanced, it's those place. But then again, I suppose everyone has their own idea of what is balanced.

As an angler I'm not necessarily saying it's a terrible thing. I love fishing for all those fish. But yet again, it's our preference as anglers. River absolutely full of brown trout: Good. River absolutely full of snakeheads: Bad. We can't be so hypocritical.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see if the snakeheads really will eat everything else to the point that things get way out of balance, or if they're just simply another bass, etc. Time will tell. And in the meantime, yes, we should take home snakeheads to eat if the biologists are suggesting we do so.

Posted on: 7/12 16:42


Re: 2018 Fly Fishing for Snakeheads and Bowfin success thread
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Article about killing snakeheads in the Potomac.

Stop Killing Snakeheads

Posted on: 7/14 9:02


Re: 2018 Fly Fishing for Snakeheads and Bowfin success thread

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2013/12/7 0:10
From SE Pa
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Nobody is offended because Fred C&R snakeheads. That's his choice.

Posted on: 7/14 9:56


Re: 2018 Fly Fishing for Snakeheads and Bowfin success thread

Joined:
2006/9/9 22:43
From Delaware Co.
Posts: 825
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Quote:

afishinado wrote:
Article about killing snakeheads in the Potomac.

Stop Killing Snakeheads


Beat me to it tweed . As you can see I haven’t been blowing hot air on here .

Poopy I don’t care if you kill it and eat it . I don’t like the senseless killing of this fish because people think this fish is some monster that will eats their dog .

Posted on: 7/14 11:20
_________________
Fish where the fish are "
- Jack Gartside -


Re: 2018 Fly Fishing for Snakeheads and Bowfin success thread
Moderator
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Quote:

Fredrick wrote:
Quote:

afishinado wrote:
Article about killing snakeheads in the Potomac.

Stop Killing Snakeheads


Beat me to it tweed . As you can see I haven’t been blowing hot air on here .

Poopy I don’t care if you kill it and eat it . I don’t like the senseless killing of this fish because people think this fish is some monster that will eats their dog .


I post a lot of info on here.....but it doesn't mean I agree with all or any of it, necessarily.

I just try to post all relevant info to have members discuss it to voice their opinions, maybe learn something, or maybe show they need some to do some more readin' and learnin' on the subject.

All good, though.

I'm personal opinion on the snakehead subject?....I'm very cautious since many fisheries biologists are very concerned about the introduction of the species. They are the experts in the field and have no reason to have an bias for or against any species.

I hope and believe they will not threaten the current fish populations. The growing population of snakehead in the Delaware and Chesapeake Bays is very concerning to me, since as I have posted above these are the spawning grounds for stripers and shad as well as very important forage species of fish.

I laugh at the disdain I read about bass being an introduced species. They are native to the northeast and from my research were introduced in 1854 or there abouts in the Chesapeake. So that ship has sailed along time ago. And the same for brown trout which were also introduced in the 1800's. Get over it! Besides if bass or trout weren't around for 150 years and were similar to snakeheads, I'd be worried about them.

From info I looked up, snakeheads may cause ecological damage because in many areas to which they are not native the absence of natural enemies gives them apex predator status. Not only can they breathe air, but they can also survive on land for up to four days and migrate 1/4 mile on wet land to other bodies of water by wriggling with their body and fins. Plus each spawning-age female can release up to 15,000 eggs at once. Snakeheads can mate as often as five times a year. This means in just two years, a single female can release up to 150,000 eggs.
Link to source: snakehead info


Posted on: 7/14 12:32


Re: 2018 Fly Fishing for Snakeheads and Bowfin success thread

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In Afish's post #35 above, if you follow the contact info highlighted, you will find that the reports are all coming to me.

Per the comment about putting fear into the public, I have spoken to and exchanged email with many individuals over the recent years who have caught snakeheads or what they thought were snakeheads and turned out to be bowfin or some other species. In the past two years, however, reports from the SE have been much more or perhaps completely accurate concerning fish ID. Anglers, whether catching and keeping or C&Ring, are providing valuable info on the expanding biogeographical range of this species and, based on frequency of reports from specific locations, a sense of their abundance. No angler with whom I have spoken in recent years has been fearful.

When snakeheads are abundant they are easily caught and easily moved to new waters. When anglers can't legally possess them alive, it gives other anglers the chance to observe illegal activity and report it, making it more difficult for those who want to keep live fish to introduce elsewhere. Even anglers who catch and release a snakehead may be providing an ecological service, as it has been observed that when the adults are removed from their nests, panfish quickly move in to gobble up the fry.


Posted on: 7/14 16:19


Re: 2018 Fly Fishing for Snakeheads and Bowfin success thread

Joined:
2006/9/9 22:43
From Delaware Co.
Posts: 825
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Quote:

Mike wrote:
In Afish's post #35 above, if you follow the contact info highlighted, you will find that the reports are all coming to me.

Per the comment about putting fear into the public, I have spoken to and exchanged email with many individuals over the recent years who have caught snakeheads or what they thought were snakeheads and turned out to be bowfin or some other species. In the past two years, however, reports from the SE have been much more or perhaps completely accurate concerning fish ID. Anglers, whether catching and keeping or C&Ring, are providing valuable info on the expanding biogeographical range of this species and, based on frequency of reports from specific locations, a sense of their abundance. No angler with whom I have spoken in recent years has been fearful.

When snakeheads are abundant they are easily caught and easily moved to new waters. When anglers can't legally possess them alive, it gives other anglers the chance to observe illegal activity and report it, making it more difficult for those who want to keep live fish to introduce elsewhere. Even anglers who catch and release a snakehead may be providing an ecological service, as it has been observed that when the adults are removed from their nests, panfish quickly move in to gobble up the fry.


Mike stop misleading people especially with the new regional report trying to make them believe they are breaking the law if they C & R . I called the WCO hotline last year to get clarification on the regs and the Wco tried to use the same lines on me I called him out on it then he became reall pushy about it .
The worst part is you guys are out there for every year surveying the fishing populations of the areas containing SHs so you have no baseline to go off of to . So how are you going to say these fish are hurting anything if you don’t have a baseline to go off of .

Posted on: 7/14 17:17
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Fish where the fish are "
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