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Re: basic nymhing techniquies and info

Joined:
2009/1/3 13:51
Posts: 335
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What PCRAY said.
If you have trouble with knowing what the tuck cast is, get Humphrey's Trout Tactics. The tuck cast is a Geo. Harvey fishing cast, and he taught it to Joe and Joe taught it to many others and many others continue to teach it. It works and should be learned.

Once you get the skill of the tuck cast down, both close up and distant, then you can work on tucking the cast left and right - in essence hook casting, which has great application fishing dries as well.

A Fly-O - Lee Wulff's indoor casting practice setup - or using some wind resistant yarn strung through the top section of a flyrod you don't especially care about - is good until you can practice outside. With the fly rod section and the yarn, tie a knot in the yarn at the end and you can practice tuck casting behind chairs, etc.

It transfers well to the real thing.

If it helps, when I bottom nymph, I generally use a two-finger rule: I use two small split shot - the smallest you can find - and secure the first one two finger widths above the fly; the second one just above this, to create a two-shot chain. This helps keeps the tippet from lining the fish, and keeps the fly rolling along the bottom.
I do this for sucker spawn and stoneflies, and others that I tuck cast - a la Geo. Harvey (J. Humphrey) - almost straight upstream and fish back down deaddrift If that weight isn't enough - and it generally isn't, except on the smallest flows, or slowest flows - I begin adding the weight above that two-shot chain that I need to counter the drag of the leader.

Also, keep in mind that "upstream" is relative to the flow of water you are fishing - not the stream relative to the bank. The flow of water in a pool goes is in every direction relative to the bank. The flow the fish are holding and feeding in is the one you want to fish.

Hope that helps.

Vern

Posted on: 2009/2/2 11:52


Re: basic nymhing techniquies and info

Joined:
2008/1/21 13:28
From South Central PA
Posts: 840
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Guess I will have to be in the minority on this one.

In dry fly casting you are forming a loop in the fly line and the energy of the line going out makes the nearly weightless dry fly follow. With several split shot on the leader, the opposite is the case, that is to say the weight on the leader makes the line follow.

That is why in the Humphreys video, for example, he suggests waiting until you feel the tug of the weighted fly and split shot on the backcast before applying the forward stroke.

Ultimately it makes no difference how we describe these casts to ourselves as long as we are getting the delivery we want. And frankly, the less you have to think about it and just "get-r-done,"
the better.

For someone struggling to make the transition from dry fly fishing to nymph fishing, however, I think it is helpful to look at the two as using different approaches to the casts.

Not looking to make a big deal out of this or get into a debate, as I appreciate there is often more than one path leading to the same destination.

Good luck, EA88

Posted on: 2009/2/2 15:26


Re: basic nymhing techniquies and info

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2009/1/3 13:51
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DGC said:

"In dry fly casting you are forming a loop in the fly line and the energy of the line going out makes the nearly weightless dry fly follow. With several split shot on the leader, the opposite is the case, that is to say the weight on the leader makes the line follow."

Couldn't let this pass without a correction.
In fly casting, the weight of the fly line always carries the fly.

The role of split shot is to not to augment the casting at all. It is merely to offset the resistance of the leader and tippet to the energy of the water and current.
There are two forces that need to be overcome: the force of the water that resists being penetrated; and the force of the flow upon materials within it.
On cross section a flow of water has varying forces, depending on slope, volume (head), and texture of its conveyence (bed).
The goal of drifting a nymph is have a balance between the forces and the resistance to achieve an acceptable (to the intended quarry) drift speed.
The very small amount of weight provided by shot on a line can easily be carried by the weight of the fly line.
If the need is for truly heavy flies or rigging, this is why we use heavier fly lines - to carry heavier flies and rigging.
Other forms of casting depend on the weight of the terminal tackle to propel the line - bait casting and spincasting - not fly casting.

In dry fly fishing, the hackle and wings of the standard dry fly provide resistance. (That resistance can be greater than that exerted by the weight of shot on line.)
To overcome that resistance, stiffer leader and tippet material is needed.
Again the goal with dry fly fishing is to achieve an intended drift.
A very lightweight unhackled deer-hair beetle, or a hackle-less cylinder ant will not have the wind resistance, and will perform similarly to a rig that incorporates shot - in that at the end of the cast, the transfer of energy from the fly line down the leader will exceed that needed to achieve the distance and the fly will hook back on itself. To overcome this, adjustments to tippet or other casting adjustments can be made - such as check casting.

The proper rigging for dry fly or nymph fishing needs to be determined for each specific application.
As with any other presentation sport, the speed of the individual in achieving this balance comes with practice and experience.

It's a matter of physics, nothing personal.

Vern

Posted on: 2009/2/3 12:07


Re: basic nymhing techniquies and info

Joined:
2008/1/21 13:28
From South Central PA
Posts: 840
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Vern, no problem here I don't take stuff like this personally at all.

We will just have to agree to disagree this time around.

Posted on: 2009/2/3 12:54


Re: basic nymhing techniquies and info

Joined:
2009/1/3 13:51
Posts: 335
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I think I understand what you were presenting - either lobbing, the practice of nymphing very closely, in which the weight of the split shot is used, similar to what is done with any rod fishing close and generally used in bait fishing and nymph fishing; or in trying to explain what happens when the energy isn't dissipated as it transfers to the fly (dissipation occurs through wind resistance or the fly or length of leader) and results in the lob-like hooking of the tippet and or leader.

But especially for those new to fly casting, lobbing isn't fly casting.

If the flow one wants to fish is 30' or more distant, and the intent is to tuck cast - getting the nymph down into the water before the leader lands on the water surface and begins to pull, then the person needs to understand the difference.

A tuck cast is also very possible through a roll cast.

Again, nothing personal, just the physics.

Posted on: 2009/2/3 14:18


Re: basic nymhing techniquies and info

Joined:
2007/1/2 11:55
From Bozeman
Posts: 19931
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You're both right. It matters how much weight you have on at the time.

There is a raging debate up at the salmon river about this. New regs state that in the fly zones, the fly line MUST propel the flies and shot. This effectively outlaws "slinkys" of shot, which used to cast like an ineffective spinning rod. People think that this means you can't use shot, but that's incorrect. It's perfectly possible to execute a fly cast with quite a bit of lead.

It's all a matter of how much.

Posted on: 2009/2/3 14:31


Re: basic nymhing techniquies and info

Joined:
2009/1/24 15:19
From Butler
Posts: 761
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Quote:

EA88 wrote:
I've been fly fishing for 3 years now and just can't pick up the skill of nymphing or the techniquies of it and also im looking for info on techniquies well as indicators and wights and were to place them on the leader any info would be much appriceated



once you get the hang of it (and I would definitely use an indicator until then) - you should really try to start fishing without an indicator -- you will feel real good when you catch one :)

Posted on: 2009/2/3 17:10



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