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Re: Help nymphing

Joined:
2015/6/1 16:22
From Burke VA
Posts: 1226
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If you're indicator is moving at the same speed as the surface water you have a big presentation problem. The water at the bottom of the river(where your flies are)is moving much slower than the water on top(where your indicator is). If your flies are moving at surface speed while down deep you are dragging really bad. Your indicator should be moving considerably slower than the surface water if it isn't add some shot. In fast water I would rather start with too much weight and take some off. In slow water I would rather start with too little and then add some. I probably average 50 weight changes a day.

As far as distance between your two flies I keep it real short, between four and six inches. The longer the distance the less connection you have with the fly, this is a strike detection killer imo. Most days I don't change flies so having a short dropper line isn't a pain for me. Most of the time nymphing comes down to 2 things for me, speed and strike detection, just my thoughts on my own system, lots of good advice from others so far.

Posted on: 5/31 18:55


Re: Help nymphing

Joined:
2016/4/26 9:38
From WV
Posts: 169
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I will add that the biggest issue I see with poor indicator fisherman is they don't move the indicator according to the hole/pocket they are fishing, they just keep casting. My leader looks like an acordian by the day's end almost every trip. Also - you can't indicator fish every run - on really fast shoots you have to take the indicator off and high stick or the indicator will create to much drag and rip your flies through.

Also to add madness to your fly set up is also dictated by what type of system your running - are you drop shotting, euro-style, I myself do it the worst way - split shot followed by my nymphs.

It's really chaotic to explain how every situation calls for a different scenario. I could go on for hours.

Posted on: 5/31 19:39


Re: Help nymphing

Joined:
2016/4/1 14:01
From SE PA
Posts: 376
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I went to a local creek yesterday after school for a hour and did catch a fish! But thank you guys so much for the tips. Nymph fishing has been a struggle for me! I can fish streamers and drys very well but struggle with nymph

Posted on: 6/1 9:04


Re: Help nymphing

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2016/2/26 9:10
Posts: 787
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Quote:

ryansheehan wrote:
If you're indicator is moving at the same speed as the surface water you have a big presentation problem. The water at the bottom of the river(where your flies are)is moving much slower than the water on top(where your indicator is). If your flies are moving at surface speed while down deep you are dragging really bad. Your indicator should be moving considerably slower than the surface water if it isn't add some shot. In fast water I would rather start with too much weight and take some off. In slow water I would rather start with too little and then add some. I probably average 50 weight changes a day.

As far as distance between your two flies I keep it real short, between four and six inches. The longer the distance the less connection you have with the fly, this is a strike detection killer imo. Most days I don't change flies so having a short dropper line isn't a pain for me. Most of the time nymphing comes down to 2 things for me, speed and strike detection, just my thoughts on my own system, lots of good advice from others so far.


I agree with you 100% on weight changes, weight is vital, I tinker with weight every time I move my feet, some guys think this is optional and that there weight is "close enough" for all spots. Weight changing isnt optional, its imperative. As Humphreys would say, the difference between a good and great nymph fisherman is a split shot. For anyone new at nymphing, this cant be stressed enough, jam it into your head that you have to concentrate on where your flies are and your weight, behind strike detection and line control its the most important factor in a solid nymph game.

Your choice to fish flies only 6" apart is really interesting, I only fish this way when I want an attractor to grab fish attention and another drab fly as a feed trigger.
How in the world do you get around not getting the second fly stuck in the fish? This is highly annoying to me when I fish flies close together, seems like no matter what I get the second fly stuck in the fish, and if your having a good day and getting into some fish this can make you go crazy untangling tippet and flies from a fish. I must admit that fishing barbless flies reduces the annoyance but it still is a little annoying.


Posted on: 6/1 10:03


Re: Help nymphing

Joined:
2015/6/1 16:22
From Burke VA
Posts: 1226
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I have alot more problems foul hooking with the dropper being longer than shorter. I just measured one of my droppers I had rigged up and it was just under 4 inches away. I think when the second fly is close it doesn't get much of an angle to snag the fish's body. Just my guess, but it works well for me.

Posted on: 6/1 12:20


Re: Help nymphing

Joined:
2011/4/12 17:23
From Lancaster Co.
Posts: 664
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Agree with you Ryan - my experience has been a dropper much longer than 10" is much more prone to foul hooking a fish. I have no experience with flies set up as far apart as NewSal.

Posted on: 6/1 14:57
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Re: Help nymphing

Joined:
2016/4/1 14:01
From SE PA
Posts: 376
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I would of never thought of putting the two flys together like that!

Posted on: 6/1 18:58


Re: Help nymphing

Joined:
2006/9/9 11:22
From New Castle, PA
Posts: 311
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Quote:

ryansheehan wrote:
If you're indicator is moving at the same speed as the surface water you have a big presentation problem....


Totally agree.

Quote:
Your indicator should be moving considerably slower than the surface water if it isn't add some shot.


I don't know if "considerably slower" is a good desscription. Noticably slower perhaps? There are certainly times when the indicator should not be moving anywhere near the surface speed. I think this is why refined tightline techniques can be so effective. They force the fisherman to regulate the speed of their leader/line in relation to the speed of the flies, not the surface current. Even when slightly leading the flies, the angler is fishing much closer to the actual speed of the current at the depth of the flies.


Quote:
I probably average 50 weight changes a day.


Agreed. If you aren't constantly tweaking your rig, you are doing it wrong.

Quote:
As far as distance between your two flies I keep it real short, between four and six inches. The longer the distance the less connection you have with the fly, this is a strike detection killer imo.


If we are talking about rigging two flies directly in-line below the weight, I agree about the strike detection, but I also think that sometimes more distance between weight and flies IS THE VERY THING that causes mores strikes. The flies are just able to move more naturally or freely. But again, it goes back to tweaking your set up to find a balance between strike detection and actually getting strikes. But, to be fair, most times we do not need to rig flies far from the weight or on long dropper tags if we are doing everything else we can to get good drifts. Using long droppers or trailing a fly far behind the weight can become a crutch or band aid for bad drifts.

Since I'm on the topic of rigging flies in relation to the weight being used. Two flies set ups in an "F" shape where the weight is the bottom of the "F" and with two droppers tied above it, and "V" shaped rigs wear the weight is at the bottom of the "V" between two flies are really underutilized methods of rigging. They are gaining more traction from tight-line enthusiasts, but this stuff works with floating indicators too. People are just too lazy to learn how to do this stuff and usually point poor knot tying skill or the hassle of tying knots. If you don't like knots you're in the wrong hobby here, or at the very least shouldn't bother discussing anything beyond basic rigging. (End Rant)


Quote:
Most of the time nymphing comes down to 2 things for me, speed and strike detection, just my thoughts on my own system, lots of good advice from others so far.


Yep.

Posted on: 6/2 6:50


Re: Help nymphing

Joined:
2011/5/3 12:22
From Morgantown, PA
Posts: 1020
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I hate to admit it, but this thread reminds me of all the reasons why nymph fishing is my least favorite style of FFing. I made a commitment this Spring to do more of it, and get better at it, and I did stick to it fairly well.

Unless fish were rising or I was fishing Brookies, I nymphed...I don't think I've thrown a streamer for more than 10 minutes total this Spring. Nymphing works no doubt, and I caught a fair number of fish doing it, including a couple of really nice wild Browns, but I still struggle with finding it as enjoyable as fishing dries or streamers. Mainly for the type of stuff being discussed in this thread.

I think that's one of the cool things about FFing though...there's guys out there that love to nymph. No rules saying how you got to fish. To the OP - It will probably vary from anger to angler, but I was in your boat...I found (and still find) nymphing to be the hardest of the FFing disciplines to master.

Posted on: 6/2 8:18


Re: Help nymphing

Joined:
2015/6/1 16:22
From Burke VA
Posts: 1226
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Kev, Noticeably probably is a better description. In faster water there will be a bigger difference than in slow for me.

It's funny you say that swattie its one of the reasons I love nymphing, it's like a puzzle you have to solve but there is less information than dry fly fishing. Which I love equally by the way, due to the visuals...go figure.

Posted on: 6/2 17:20


Re: Help nymphing

Joined:
2006/9/9 11:22
From New Castle, PA
Posts: 311
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Quote:

Swattie87 wrote: I still struggle with finding it as enjoyable as fishing dries or streamers. Mainly for the type of stuff being discussed in this thread. .


There's absolutely nothing wrong with sticking with methods that you enjoy. The only problems I see are when people try to discredit a technique simply because of personal bias or ignorance.

Posted on: 6/2 18:57


Re: Help nymphing

Joined:
2006/9/9 11:22
From New Castle, PA
Posts: 311
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Quote:

ryansheehan wrote:
Kev, Noticeably probably is a better description. In faster water there will be a bigger difference than in slow for me.

It's funny you say that swattie its one of the reasons I love nymphing, it's like a puzzle you have to solve but there is less information than dry fly fishing. Which I love equally by the way, due to the visuals...go figure.


And there is more variety to nymphing than dry fly fishing IMO. Everyone loves the excitement of seeing a fish suck down their dry, but the need to be knowledgeable and versatile for consistent success is what keeps fishing interesting.

Posted on: 6/2 19:00


Re: Help nymphing

Joined:
2006/9/9 22:43
From Delaware Co.
Posts: 469
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What part of SEPA are you from ?

Posted on: 6/5 7:38
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Re: Help nymphing

Joined:
2009/5/7 14:38
From Collegeville, PA
Posts: 100
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I recommend that Jessed read the book Moving Water by Jason Randall. In the book there is a chapter called The Three-Dimensional River that does a great job showing what the current does to your nymphs under the surface. In order to become a good nymph fisher you need to understand what is happening to your rig below your indicator.

Posted on: 6/5 10:20


Re: Help nymphing

Joined:
2010/8/4 11:18
Posts: 560
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Not to derail the thread but I'll agree to disagree that nymphing is more difficult. I can take someone who never fished to a rifle and have them roll casting a thingAmabobber and into fish I'd less than an hour.

Even on a difficult river like the upper delaware, someone new to the sport can roll cast good a bobber rig good enough into a riffle to have a good shot at hooking a fish within 30 mins. I'm not sure I can get that same person into fish with a dry fly that quickly.

I'm not saying the guy will be an expert nympher in a day, but it's not hard to position someone in a stream where they can lob a bobber 15-20' into a riffle and have a good shot at hooking a fish.

Posted on: 6/5 18:57



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