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Re: Flies in trees

Joined:
2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
Posts: 13482
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Well, frankly, I don't see much of a difference between the time it takes to get a fish off of a barbed hook or an unbarbed hook. Nor to the damage of the fish's mouth, it's a rare event that either doesn't just slip out easily for me. With fish in water, I grab fly with hemos, lift and twist, fish comes off.

The exception may be with large hooks (and large barbs), like streamers, buggers, stoneflies and the like. There I think there's a benefit to the fish. But more often than not I'm using nymphs no bigger than a 14 and dries no bigger than a 12, and they come out pretty easily even with a barb in place.

You're mileage may vary, and if for you, it takes longer on a barbed hook, absolutely, use it.

Nonetheless, I do use barbless hooks. It's to protect ME and the fly. Human skin is a different beast than a fish's mouth, as is clothing. And I hook those quite often. And there's not much of a disadvantage to going barbless, my landing rate doesn't seem to suffer much.

Posted on: 2012/3/5 9:11


Re: Flies in trees
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2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
Posts: 9015
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Quote:

Foxgap239 wrote:
Quote:

pcray1231 wrote:
See, some people use barbless for the fish. Not me, I really don't have much issue with barbs and fish.


I know I don't know you real well but after reading your posts on the board this surprises me. I'm not being judgmental in any way I assure you, this just seems different to your other views on things. Nothing wrong with your view on this like I said it just surprises me.


I do it for both me and the fish. There have been studies that claim barbless hooks make no difference in the survival % of fish hooked, but I find I can more times than not, I can release a fish easier and quicker with a barbless hook. I can't quantify how that equates to the survivabity % of fish, but I believe it has some positive effect.

Some even claim hook setting is easier without a barb. I can't really say that is true, maybe with larger hooks and barbs.

But the bottom line is, I really see no real downside to squeezing down the barbs.

As far as your question to Pcray, I can assure you he is one of the best sportsman on here, and does everything he can not to harm fish in any way.

Posted on: 2012/3/5 10:22


Re: Flies in trees

Joined:
2011/6/29 9:38
From Philadelphia
Posts: 2137
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Quote:

afishinado wrote:
As far as your question to Pcray, I can assure you he is one of the best sportsman on here, and does everything he can not to harm fish in any way.


Afish, I totally agree which is why I was surprised. I don't mean to infer anything about his sportmanship or stewardship and I apologize if it came across that way.

Posted on: 2012/3/5 10:27


Re: Flies in trees
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
Posts: 9015
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Quote:

Foxgap239 wrote:
Quote:

afishinado wrote:
As far as your question to Pcray, I can assure you he is one of the best sportsman on here, and does everything he can not to harm fish in any way.


Afish, I totally agree which is why I was surprised. I don't mean to infer anything about his sportmanship or stewardship and I apologize if it came across that way.


Hey, Pat is a sceintist, and he actually PAYS ATTENTION to those silly scientific studies!

Posted on: 2012/3/5 10:32


Re: Flies in trees

Joined:
2011/6/29 9:38
From Philadelphia
Posts: 2137
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I actually had never heard about that study and now maybe I won't feel so bad when I forget to pinch down one of my barbs!

I have a VERY high opinion of Pat and would never want to infer anything otherwise.

Posted on: 2012/3/5 10:34


Re: Flies in trees

Joined:
2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
Posts: 13482
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I do pay attention to scientific studies. The thing is, they tend to outline the average. Which includes people of all skill levels, people who fish with hooks of all sizes, etc. For instance, it may be that there's a huge advantage for the fish in large hook sizes, and a tiny one at small hook sizes.

It's the same with bait fishermen. On average, absolutely, more fish swallow the hook and the mortality is considerably higher. They swallow it because the technique allows the fishermen to let it happen, with live bait, the fish will comply. But the fishermen doesn't HAVE to let it happen. Lots of bait fishermen keep tight lines, and strike immediately, and their deep hooking/mortality rate is likely not much worse than us fly fishermen. Others fish under bobbers, or set the rod on a stick, or just plain purposely let the fish take it a while to ensure they don't "miss" the fish. And they will deep hook dang near 100%. Taken as 1 group averaged together, the mortality rate is indeed considerably worse than fly fishermen, but that doesn't mean you can say that bait fishing automatically leads to higher mortality. It's just that fly fishing is more idiot proof in this regard, you either strike right away or the fish spits it out. With bait, you either strike right away, or the fish takes it deep.

Anyway, while I use barbless, there are times I have forgotten to pinch it down. Mostly on bought flies that I bought shortly before fishing them, which tends to be match the hatch flies that I ran short of, and they tend to be smaller bugs, i.e. smaller hooks and smaller barbs, where I'm using light tippet and losing my share to Murphy's Law. And as a personal observation, the hooks aren't really ANY more difficult to take out of a fish's mouth than my barbless hooks. The only time I've ever really had an issue with barbs and fish were with streamers and big stonefly nymphs.


Posted on: 2012/3/5 11:08


Re: Flies in trees

Joined:
2010/11/2 21:16
From Maytown, PA
Posts: 400
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When I am bait fishing for Catfish the mortality rate is 100%.


I have been pinching down the barbs on a lot of the flies I tie. Just seems easier to get them out have not noticed a difference in lost fish.

Posted on: 2012/3/6 20:26



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