Euro vs. Drop Shot Nymphing

[Skook]

So, I was all set to step up my game this year and learn the competition-style Euro nymphing techniques. Then, I watched a "drop-shot nymphing" video on YouTube by Kelly Galloup, and he stated that the drop-shot technique is as good as, and perhaps even more effective, than the Euro techniques.

Mr. Galloup stated that the competition rules prohibit the use of strike indicators and added weight on the leader, and so the fishermen compensate by using relatively heavily weighted flies and Euro-style techniques because they have no better choice. But for non-competitors like me, the drop-shot rig is better. At least, that was his theory.

So, what say you? I understand that either technique practiced and employed by good nymph fishermen will be effective. However, I guess I am wondering whether the Euro style of nymph fishing is truly more effective than other styles or whether it is often perceived as being more effective because these world-class fishermen have no choice but to use it. In these same hands, would an indicator/drop-shot system be even more effective?

Just wondering what you all think....

 

[csoult]

Ok, so.... I looked it up and that's a cool system, and I've never used it before, but I will for sure. I have great luck tight lining, but this system seems to make more sense than the system I currently use. I think that Afish was telling me he used this system and either I didn't quite grasp what he was explaining or I couldn't focus enough to get it due to a groggy head from the night before. I'm not sure about using an indicator, but in slower water I'd imagine it would work well. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[pratt]

I was introduced to that technique by a guide in Utah (though he called it a 'bounce rig') - it was very effective on the river that we fished (the Provo) that had a bottom consisting mostly of smaller pebbles/rocks. I tried the rig out in PA after that trip, and found that the drop shot/loop with shot got hung up ALOT on bigger rockes/boulders...and I ended up re-rigging way more often than I wanted to. I've been tight-lining ever since....

 

[Dave_W]

I'll vote for the drop shot method as superior.

I've been placing my shot below my nymphs for decades - works very well for me.

I prefer to use a lighter weight line for the shot, precisely so you can break it off if the weight gets snagged. In periods of very heavy water with stiff current, I even use a bell sinker

 

[ryansheehan]

I use both, the drop shot rig is a savior on rivers with didymo. You can fish for extended periods of time without cleaning your fly. The other major advantage to a drop shot rig is strike detection. Because you are in direct contact with the fly there is no delay to feeling a strike. You can tightline or use an indicator with this system.

The drawback is its tougher to fish multiple flies especially if they are small. To fish more than one fly you need to attach it using a surgeons or blood knot tag above your point fly. In order for it not to tangle it needs to be atleast 4x but 3x is better. This creates an issue if you like to fish smaller nymphs or midges, which I do.

My advice, use both, don't get married to one rig.

 

[NewSal]

ryansheehan wrote:
I use both, the drop shot rig is a savior on rivers with didymo. You can fish for extended periods of time without cleaning your fly. The other major advantage to a drop shot rig is strike detection. Because you are in direct contact with the fly there is no delay to feeling a strike. You can tightline or use an indicator with this system.

The drawback is its tougher to fish multiple flies especially if they are small. To fish more than one fly you need to attach it using a surgeons or blood knot tag above your point fly. In order for it not to tangle it needs to be atleast 4x but 3x is better. This creates an issue if you like to fish smaller nymphs or midges, which I do.

My advice, use both, don't get married to one rig.

Hey Ryan, I'm sure you already know this, but for the off chance you may not, I've found that if you want a dropper tag to a small nymph and want to use 5-7x as the dropper, a way to get around a lot of the tangle issues is to tie your dropper on your tippet above your surgeons or blood knot of your point fly section using a clinch knot. the surgeons or blood knot keeps it from sliding down to your point fly, and ive never had it slide up the leader. The clinch knot provides a perfectly perpendicular connection and reduces the tangle factor- atleast for me anyways as opposed to tying off the tag of a blood knot or surgeons when it comes to light tippets... maybe something to play around with if you haven't before.

 

[ryansheehan]

Thanks! I'm going to give that a shot.

 

[franklin]

Dave_W wrote:
I'll vote for the drop shot method as superior.

I've been placing my shot below my nymphs for decades - works very well for me.

I prefer to use a lighter weight line for the shot, precisely so you can break it off if the weight gets snagged. In periods of very heavy water with stiff current, I even use a bell sinker

I'd agree. I've used the drop shot system extensively with baitcasting equipment for bass and have just recently started using it for flyfishing. I don't have a problem losing the sinker off the bottom of the drop shot rig but I hate loosing flies I tied (or even worse the few I pay for) off the end of the Euro rig.

 

[SurfCowboyXX]

Ask Afish. This is how he rolls his nymphs.

 

[mcwillja]

anyone else use that loop idea. I may have to try that.

 

[Skook]

Yeah, the loop idea shown in the video (thank you for embedding it) looks like a great idea.

Kelly ties a blood knot above his point fly, and instead of using a tag end of the knot to tie the dropper fly, he adds a separate piece of tippet using a perfection loop.

He suggests pre-tying these connectors and carrying extras so the dropper fly can be changed very easily without reworking or shortening the entire rig.

He takes a short length of tippet and makes a perfection loop on one end. Then, he just holds the perfection loop next to the leader and inserts the opposite end of the tippet piece through the loop and around the leader. Cinch it tight, and the existing blood knot prevents this ready-made dropper from sliding down the leader.

If any of you are like me, you probably have dozens of factory tied snelled hooks leftover from your bait fishing years when you were a kid. Now we finally have a use for them. Cut off the hook and use the remaining line and loop to create a dropper.... :lol:

 

[PennKev]

Oh boy.... where to start?

First, "euro" nymphing is more of a method of fishing, e.g., tightlining without a bouyant indicator. "Drop shotting" is more specifically a style of rigging your leader and elements of drop shot rigging are also HEAVILY used in euro nymphing.

Second, While I am a fan of Galloup, he has strong opinions and while generally sound, they should be taken in context. A lot of his advice is based on fishing the Madison River, a large fast flowing river that is absolutely loaded with fish, and which does not have dramatic changes in structure. You can certainly use tight line "Euro" tactics there, but you are also probably going to want to be able to fish on longer caster across rather uniform currents. In this environment, the Euro techniques do not standout like they do on smaller water with more varied and complex currents. So in that context, rigging in a drop shot style under a thingamabob or other very buoyant indicator has some advantages over Euro techniques. Also, did I mention the Madison is loaded with fish? It is not hard to get into fish there regardless of how you fish.

Ok, so for actual drop shot rigging...

Yes, it is a good method of rigging your nymphs. It keeps your flies out of snags, it regulates your flies depth, and strikes register on the indicator better than fishing your flies in-line below weight. Is it vastly more effective than fishing your nymphs in-line? Well, I'll just say this; it doesn't seem to be any LESS effective than in-line rigging and has the added benefit of causing you to LOSE FEWER flies.

I have used the loop method described by Galloup and it works well. However, I prefer to tie dropper loops in the leader itself at the points I wish to attach the flies and use loop-to-loop connections to attach the final short tippet to which I tie my fly. Yes, regardless of which why you use loops, the loops form a doubled section on line very near your flies. The fish do not care. I also believe the loops create a stiff spot which holds your flies away from the leader and minimizes tangles. This might not sound the best for presentation, but it works... ...well. (google "dropper loop knot" for details about that)

 

[PennKev]

Skook wrote:
However, I guess I am wondering whether the Euro style of nymph fishing is truly more effective than other styles or whether it is often perceived as being more effective because these world-class fishermen have no choice but to use it. In these same hands, would an indicator/drop-shot system be even more effective?

The fact that Euro nymphing plays by an actual set of rules is lost on many people. Yes, tight line tactics are deadly in the right circumstances and versatile enough to catch fish in a large number of situations. Are they always the best? NO! NO! NO!

Tightline "Euro" techniques are a big part of my fishing, but totally abandoning a buoyant indicator like the TB is laughable IMO. I am out to catch fish with fly tackle, the only rules I worry about are in the PA regs booklet.

I always get a laugh out of guys who post here expressing their desire to learn how to fish without indicators. Usually they miss the point entirely. They often think it's some kind of silver bullet because the competitive guys do it. Yes it's very effective, but IT IS TAILORED TO THE RULES THEY ARE REQUIRED TO FOLLOW!!!! They have no other choice!

Also, see my previous post about why Galloup might say that the drop shot and thingamabober rig is better than tight lining. Context is everything. I am sure he'd have a different opinion if his home water Was Spring Creek here in PA. Coincidently, while I think Spring is a nearly ideal stream to use "euro" techniques, I've also caught a lot of fish there on rigs like the one Galloup demonstrates.

The best advice is learn a variety of ways to rig and fish nymphs, learn to recognize when and where these methods are best used, and keep an open mind. Don't get too caught up in trends, think critically. Keep trying new things and find what works for you.

 

[Skook]

Great advice. I appreciate your thoughts.

 

[Skook]

What sort of rod and fly line would you recommend as a versatile "all-around" set-up that would work well for using these various techniques?

I'm now wondering whether a "regular" rod (whatever that is) used for high-stick nymphing will also work well for Euro style fishing or whether an ESN style rod with a stout butt and light, sensitive tip section would also work well for indicator fishing.

Are the rods/lines different enough that it's almost necessary to have a dedicated rod and fly line for each of the various techniques?

 

[PennKev]

Skook wrote:
What sort of rod and fly line would you recommend as a versatile "all-around" set-up that would work well for using these various techniques?

I'm now wondering whether a "regular" rod (whatever that is) used for high-stick nymphing will also work well for Euro style fishing or whether an ESN style rod with a stout butt and light, sensitive tip section would also work well for indicator fishing.

Are the rods/lines different enough that it's almost necessary to have a dedicated rod and fly line for each of the various techniques?

The real question should be; Do you also want the same rod to fish dries and cast streamers too?

There are some grey areas also. For example a 10ft 4wt with a conventional line is still pretty versatile for most trout fishing but has some advantages when high stick and tightline nymphing.

A 10ft+ 2 or 3wt, in comparison, is more specialized, and when coupled with some of the level of nearly level "competition" lines, has very little versatility IMO. There are times I've thought such a rig would be ideal, but I usually prefer to maintain some versatility. The person who is fine with fishing a certain way all day would see it differently.

To quickly answer your question, you don't need a special rod to get into the various nymphing techniques. Learn them first, then decide what fine tuning of your equipment will help you and fit into your fishing habits.

Kev

 

[ryansheehan]

Skook wrote:
What sort of rod and fly line would you recommend as a versatile "all-around" set-up that would work well for using these various techniques?

I'm now wondering whether a "regular" rod (whatever that is) used for high-stick nymphing will also work well for Euro style fishing or whether an ESN style rod with a stout butt and light, sensitive tip section would also work well for indicator fishing.

Are the rods/lines different enough that it's almost necessary to have a dedicated rod and fly line for each of the various techniques?

No, I use a 10 foot 4 weight for many different nymphing styles. The key is a long rod for line management and a sensitive tip for feel when not using an indicator.

 

[Skook]

I have several rods ranging from 3 wt to 9 wt. The longest is the 9 wt at 9'6". The shortest are a 7' 5/6 wt and 7' 4 wt. Most of my rods were purchased years ago when highly specialized rods weren't nearly as in vogue as they seem to be now.

Of the rods that I own currently, I guess a 9' 5 wt would be my best choice.

Maybe I'll look into something like a 10' 4wt. I have another post here asking about Euro rods, but I might be leaning toward something more versatile.

 

[ryansheehan]

A 9 foot rod is not an ideal choice to nymph with. It can be done don't get me wrong but that extra foot makes a big difference. A 10 foot 4 weight is more versatile than most people think.

 

[afishinado]

PennKev wrote:


The best advice is learn a variety of ways to rig and fish nymphs, learn to recognize when and where these methods are best used, and keep an open mind. Don't get too caught up in trends, think critically. Keep trying new things and find what works for you.

A lot of good advice by all. PK sums up the deal above ^.


I'm an Indy, tight-line, high-stick, dry-dropper, Czech, Spanish, French, Polish, drop-shot bounce nympher......

The secret (and the fun) is to be able to choose the best method from above, and apply it to the water and fish in front of you at the time.

Or you can choose to fish dries only and have fun doing that!