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why stock over wild trout

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2011/9/14 18:16
From South East pa
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Just a quick question, looking to see what everyone else thinks. Why does the fish commmission stock over wild trout? I would think spending as much as we do for licensing that some of it would go towards conservation and not just raising stockers for the put and take fisherman. Why not put a little towards helping the wild trout that are already there take more of a stronghold and put the stockers in streams that don't support natural reproduction? Just looking for some insight.

Posted on: 2013/3/4 13:38


Re: why stock over wild trout

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2006/9/13 10:18
From LV
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We've been asking that question for, forever. I would think that with the reductions of stocking that will be the first thing considered, and there will be cuts, how far cuts to stocking over wild trout go is anyones guess.

Posted on: 2013/3/4 14:23
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Re: why stock over wild trout

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2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
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Yeah, the quick answer is that the angling public, by percent of license buyers, demands it. Remember, it's not by angler hours, it's by number of licenses sold. So all those who fish 1 or 2 weekends a year have as much say as the guys who fish 200 days a year. And if they've been going to a stream for years, take their kids on opening day as a tradition, etc., and suddenly the PFBC takes it off the stocking list, they get a little upset. Politically, removing streams from the list is simply difficult.

Regarding the hatchery closings and reductions in stocked fish, I do recognize that eliminating class B's alone doesn't gain you much. Less than 1% of stocked fish go into them. I still support removing those streams from the list out of principle. But I recognize it's not a "solution" to the fish reduction problem.

When you start eliminating class C's and D's the numbers grow considerably. And I won't say that none of these should be stocked. Nor will I say that there's any way to get out of this without reducing numbers of stocked fish per stream. But I will say that where there's options, I support removing streams before reducing numbers in other streams. And the higher the wild biomass, the more favored that stream should be for removal from the stocking list.

I would also welcome a greater push towards establishing fingerling stocked fisheries, rather than adult stockings.

Posted on: 2013/3/4 14:56


Re: why stock over wild trout

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2012/2/15 16:35
From Butler, Pa
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same here Pcray I know a handful of fisheries that could be outstanding with fingerling stockings.

Posted on: 2013/3/4 15:49


Re: why stock over wild trout
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2006/9/9 17:32
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SNP,
The short answer to your question is to provide angling opportunities to the public.

Over thirty years ago, the PFBC adopted a program called Operation Future and part of its goal was to eliminate stocking over wild trout populations that were high enough already to provide good numbers of fish without stocking. Streams with these high levels of wild trout are categorized as "Class A" and are not stocked (usually). However, many streams that are stocked still have good populations of wild fish but do not meet this Class A threshold. Many of us feel that further abatement of stocking over these wild populations would allow many of them to increase. However, the sections that are stocked have, in many cases, been stocked for decades and removing these sections from stocking is very unpopular among local anglers and the PFBC always takes a beating when they stop stocking streams that have "always" been stocked in the past. The PFBC is damned if they do and if they don't.
Nevertheless, budget realities are going to force some hard decisions with respect to stocking in the future.

Posted on: 2013/3/4 17:02


Re: why stock over wild trout
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2006/9/9 9:29
From Monessen, PA
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I know this won't go over well with many, and I am not advocating this as policy, but just offering food for thought. Streams with wild populations have ideal or at least superior habitat, including water chemistry and temperature, forage and cover. When trout are stocked in such streams, they tend to thrive and begin feeding on naturals. These stocked trout can be very fun to catch for a large segment of the citizenry. The streams are also delightful outdoor experiences.

Such supplemental stockings can take a barely Class A stream and artificially double or triple the biomass for a period of time, sometimes all year long. Most trout anglers could not tell, nor care less whether the trout was born in the stream.

Streams that cannot support wilds are generally not very attractive. Thus, the stocked trout enthusiast is relegated to ugly waters. The PFBC tries to accomodate them somewhat.

Posted on: 2013/3/4 17:28

Edited by JackM on 2013/3/4 20:15:07
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Re: why stock over wild trout

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2006/9/13 10:18
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Any time PFBC reduces stocking they get beat up, and they haven't even decided what streams will get less fish because they aren't reducing stocked fish until next year. They also lose large numbers of license buyers when they reduce stocking, they always say it's not related, but I'm here to tell you the numbers don't back that up.

Posted on: 2013/3/4 17:43
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There is always time to do more to protect wild trout.


Re: why stock over wild trout

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2006/11/2 8:50
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The Bellefonte and Oswayo hatcheries will raise fish for next year's trout season (2014) then they will close.

So, the big reductions in number of stocked trout will come in the 2015 season. So, the decisions about re-allocations will have to be made before that time.

I think the PFBC biologists and managers and most of the commissioners would be happy to move a lot of hatchery fish away from wild trout streams to stock in non-wild trout streams, such as Loyalsock, Lycoming, Pine, Kettle, First Fork, Driftwood Br, Oil Creek, as well as stockie dependent streams closer to the big cities.

And maybe even the Bennett Branch. There has been a lot of progress in the acid mine drainage cleanup, and it may now be suitable for stocking. It's big water and runs a long way through scenic country.

The main roadblock will be the legislators. If we want to see progress, I think that at the right time, we should organize and try to get everyone who agrees with moving more of the hatchery trout away from the wild trout streams to the other streams, to express their views, by contacting their legislators.

That's the way things work. In the past the wild trout advocates have mainly contacted the PFBC.

While those supporting continuation of stocking over native brookies and wild browns have had a lot of influence over fishery decisions by contacting their legislators.

Although the PFBC is supposedly an "independent" agency, in reality it isn't. The legislators are the "deciders." We've seen this in practice numerous times.

Posted on: 2013/3/4 20:11


Re: why stock over wild trout

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2010/2/21 12:17
From Solanco, PA
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I'm with snpbound. There are way to many streams In pa that do not hold a nat reproducing pop of wild trout for the pfbc to be stocking wild streams. If they would utilize their budget properly and kept the stocked trout where they belong they could keep everyone happy and still be offering enough " fishing opportunities to the public".

Posted on: 2013/3/5 1:02
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Re: why stock over wild trout

Joined:
2011/9/14 18:16
From South East pa
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thanks for all the replies. I have been doing some reading on other states licensing fee compared to ours. Virginia has a freshwater fishing license, then you must buy another license to pay for fishing stocked waters.
seems to me this would help the "funding" problems. This would also allow for the funds earned by just the "Freshwater" license to go towards some type of conservation efforts rather than a put and take mentality. any thoughts on that ?

Posted on: 2013/3/5 20:45
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Re: why stock over wild trout

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2009/5/7 14:38
From Collegeville, PA
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I think that the PA equivalent to what you are describing is the trout stamp that trout fishers have to pay for.

Posted on: 2013/3/5 21:49


Re: why stock over wild trout

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2011/9/14 18:16
From South East pa
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okay but what about the guy that does not fish stocked streams that still has to buy a trout stamp? am I required to buy the stamp to fish class a wild trout waters? I guess I really never thought about not buying one because I was unsure of the exact law and how it may be perceived by the wardens?

Posted on: 2013/3/5 23:09
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Re: why stock over wild trout

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fishidiot: "many streams that are stocked still have good populations of wild fish but do not meet this Class A threshold. Many of us feel that further abatement of stocking over these wild populations would allow many of them to increase."

ok, let's assume that the wild populations would increase if stocking were stopped... wouldn't the many people who visit these streams for stockies still be disappointed because they would catch fewer fish, and smaller fish?

stockie fishing is a tradition in PA!... why dont you guys just take on Punxatawny Phil or deer hunting, or something? maybe you could point out that there really is no Keith Stone, and that there are some very good reasons why drinking should be banned at flyers-penguins games. ... napoleon wanted a decimal calender, and it really was a rational idea... :)

(state trout plan: "34% of Pennsylvania trout anglers fish exclusively for stocked trout and 1% fish exclusively for wild trout.")

I know that the issue is changing the number of streams that are stocked, not ending stocking period. we can say "stop stocking the class Bs!" but we 100% wild trout types are a small minority, and a much bigger group of stockie fans can tell the state that, "they can just fish the class As and other unstocked waters." and the band played on....









Posted on: 2013/3/6 5:55

Edited by k-bob on 2013/3/6 6:11:28
Edited by k-bob on 2013/3/6 6:32:11
Edited by k-bob on 2013/3/6 6:33:21
Edited by k-bob on 2013/3/6 6:51:26
Edited by k-bob on 2013/3/6 6:55:01


Re: why stock over wild trout

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2009/7/29 10:25
Posts: 1808
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"Streams that cannot support wilds are generally not very attractive. "

given AMD issues, I know of some exceptions, streams that are beautiful and have good enough water for small wild trout pops...

Posted on: 2013/3/6 7:18


Re: why stock over wild trout

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2006/11/10 8:32
Posts: 1755
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When you ask the question, are you asking about stocking over ANY wild trout no matter the density or over wild trout of a particular density or biomass?

Posted on: 2013/3/7 7:55



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