nymph fishing for small stream PA winter brookies

[k-bob]

I like dry flies, but when exploring new mountain streams in the winter, it is difficult to catch even brookies on dries in < 40 degree water. So it's hard to figure how well the stream actually fishes. I have seen some nice large stonefly larvae from a stream I like, so I thought I'd buy some evil-looking tom's stonefly nymphs and have a go at nymphing. (stonefly larvae live through the winter right?) ... I found this video, seems relevant to nymph fishing for mountain PA winter brookies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AA02MDN0XG0

OK, so I use my really-long (7'6" !) fly rod, try to high stick when fishing at close range, get a two-color strike indicator and keep it downstream of the evil looking tom's stonefly, get that fly to sink, and I'll be in Fish City. Is that right?

Would this work for brown trout even in water below 40? Do browns shows as much tendency to shut down in the sun in the winter as they do in the summer? That would make it hard to fish at higher mid day water temps.

One issue I face in the winter is glare on the water when there's snow on the ground. Even bright dries can become harder to see. That must make using a colorful strike indicator more important when there's snow and the fly line-leader junction is hard to see. Think I will also use a bright yellow fly line to help with this.

Aprreciate any thoughts...

 

[Swattie87]

I raised a similar topic in a thread a few weeks ago, and I think the plurality response was that small Buggers (in the size 12-14 range) were the fly of choice for winter Brookies. I've tried nymphing for them, but I too tend to do best with really small streamers, usually dead drifted, or just twitched slightly.

I've seen that Youtube vid before...those "small streams" are significantly larger than most of the ones I fish for Brookies! My primary Brookie rod for the streams I fish is a 7 footer (well 6'11 technically). I agree it's difficult to high stick effectively with that short of a rod. The streams in that video are big and open enough to allow the use of a longer rod though, which makes the high sticking easier. I would probably go with at least an 8'0 or 8'6 rod on the streams in the vid.

I'm the same way though...prefer dries on small Brookie streams, but in Winter it just doesn't always work that well. You can usually still catch a few on dries even if temps are below 40, but it doesn't give you a real good indication of how good a stream is. In Winter I like to scout streams, and it's tough to tell sometimes which ones are worth coming back to in the Spring to fish with dries. Even fishing subsurface with small streamers, whatever I catch in Winter, I figure I can at least double or triple with dries when the water is warmer. If I catch at least a handful on a Winter day, I figure it's worth coming back to.

Not sure there's much of a difference in how Brooks and Browns would react in these situations. Depends on the stream in question I suppose though. In streams that I fish often and hold both, I catch a similar ratio of Brooks to Browns (for that given stream) in Winter as I do Summer, so I don't think the Browns are any more or less shy than the Brookies, even in the sun. In small streams as long as they don't see you first, I think Browns behave more or less like Brookies. In bigger, more fertile waters this changes though.

I'm not a big fan of indicators, but I agree visibility is more of an issue in Winter. The sun is at a lower angle to the water, and if there's any snow on the ground that only magnifies the problem. For Brookies on small streams, fortunately you're usually not very far from the hole or run you're fishing so that makes it a little easier (at least for me) to track the leader/fly line junction when fishing subsurface. When I dead drift small streamers upstream (which I suppose is basically nymphing them) I just try to keep up with any slack in the fly line, and you can usually see that upstream tug or pause when there's a strike.

 

[k-bob]

"In Winter I like to scout streams, and it's tough to tell sometimes which ones are worth coming back to in the Spring to fish with dries. Even fishing subsurface with small streamers, whatever I catch in Winter, I figure I can at least double or triple with dries when the water is warmer. If I catch at least a handful on a Winter day, I figure it's worth coming back to."

Thanks, and yup. Or if I fish dry flies in 40 water, I'd guess that once the water hits 55, I'd catch five times more fish using dries then.

I might carry some bright strike indicators and try them if the fly line-leader junction is hard to see given glare from low sun + snow + leaf-off winter trees... can be brutal!

I am used to a 6'9" or so rod on little streams, so I think my longest 7'6" one will seem to have extra reach, at least to me.

 

[pcray1231]

In small streams as long as they don't see you first, I think Browns behave more or less like Brookies. In bigger, more fertile waters this changes though.

Agree. And the vice versa is true too, when brookies are put into larger, more fertile waters, they behave like browns! Thus the aggressive, non-picky, ultra spooky quality we associate with brookies is more a function of location than it is species. It's just that we associate brookies with the small, infertile waters and browns with the larger, fertile waters. There are plenty of exceptions in both.

Even in the infertile waters, though, browns seem a little less predictable to me. Yeah, plenty of times I've seen em aggressive like a brookie, even in the middle of a sunny day on attractor patterns presented with too much drag. But in the same stream, on another day when brookies are active, the browns can go inactive.

I think, ultimately, browns ARE naturally more creatures of routine. They turn on and feed. They turn off and don't feed. Brookies are more constant, always interested in eating. So you could say, in a way, brookies are indeed more "opportunistic".

But not necessarily less picky, more spooky, or more aggressive. That's more a function of the fertility of the stream. In a small unfertile stream, browns are every bit as spooky as brookies, and if you catch them while feeding, they're also as aggressive and non-selective about pattern and presentation.

So my answers are:

Would this work for brown trout even in water below 40?

Sometimes. If they are feeding, yes. If not, no.

Do browns shows as much tendency to shut down in the sun in the winter as they do in the summer?

In smaller, unfertile waters, browns don't even shut down in the sun in the summer! I'm sure sun plays a part in their cycles, but I've done plenty well at midday on sunny days.

 

[k-bob]

Yeah, in the mountain streams, the bookies seem to be more constant feeders ... good for longer fishing days.

 

[troutbert]

On small streams often it is hard to get beside the fish and do high stick nymphing without spooking the fish.

So, you can just nymph fish by casting straight upstream and drifting it back towards you.

 

[csoult]

k-bob wrote:
I like dry flies, but when exploring new mountain streams in the winter, it is difficult to catch even brookies on dries in < 40 degree water. So it's hard to figure how well the stream actually fishes.

I ran into this exact situation the other day. Water temp was 38 degrees and I was on a small stream that I know holds a good, if not great, population of brookies..... It was like the stream was dead and devoid of life. Tried everything, they were just shut down and not feeding. Not much you can do about it IMO.

 

[PhilC]

I agree with the buggers...I was using an egg sucking leach the other day and brookies attacked it, the bright head served as somewhat of a strike indicator.
I'm sure nymphing would work, funny thing is I can't remember even using nymphs on brookies. Well maybe I should say nymphs would work but nymphing itself could be tricky.
I focus most on not spooking brookies...staying low and high sticking nymphs don't mix well

So back to buggers...I like to fish the opposite of dries for brookies. So instead of working upstream starting at the back of the pool, I fish downstream starting at the top of the pool. It works well if its overgrown since a lot of casting isn't necessary. Then just mend and let line out of cover through the back end of the pool...

 

[k-bob]

Tb and philc... Yeah high sticking without spooking fish sounds tricky. But as csoult points out, once the water is below 40, a rise to a dry fly is a lot to ask of even a mountain brookie. Think I will add some nymphs to the gear and be ready to try dries, nymphs w and wo small bright strike indicators, whatever. I dont like to cast weight, so whatever I use will be on the light side.

 

[pcray1231]

k-bob, don't forget about the venerable dry-dropper!!!

If they start rising to the dry, lose the dropper.

 

[k-bob]

Right I have seen that work.. and I tried casting dehooked nymphs in the yard with my usual sort of 6-7' 2 wt fly rods... Didnt cast well until I tried overlining my 7'6" echo carbon 3w a bit... That felt much better. If I do use any kind of strike indicator, I expect fish to hit it

 

[unforgiven]

Pcray: Do you mean use a dry as an indicator? And if the brookies start hitting the indicator/dry fly, drop the nymph? I'm new at this and never thought about that. It seems like a great idea.

 

[csoult]

This is what's called a dry dropper.

 

[Hookerman]

A 7' 6" bamboo with a Payne style taper, 3' 5X leader and 1' 6X tippet is the ideal rig, for me, what'll work best for you is somthing only you'll know after several successful outings. In mountain rills where streamers are not able to be presented effectively I'll dead drift nymphs near the bottom (sometimes with occsasional movement against the current - no reason just when I feel like doing it) so, weight(s) is key and I'll add and/or remove shot as necessary in order to achieve what I feel is the ideal fly and line flow. Personally I find not using an indicator (some prefer the term 'bobber') makes the 'ah ha!' moment of a hookup more enjoyable.

If you fish the foam/heavy bubble stream it's possible to stand right on the bank without the fish seeing you so, no stealth approach worries.

As the saying goes "If you're getting snagged, you're getting the fly where it needs to be". Of course this depends on the water temp. as during VERY cold weather the fish wil be on the bottom and not wanting to move much.

*Note - bring gloves and/or a hand warmer if you are practicing C&R for it is NOT wise to expose the fish to frigid air temps. as their gills can suffer mortal damage from the cold.

 

[Hookerman]

Are browns active in water less than 40F? Sure, but, as the pic below shows, not as much as brook char/brook trout are

 

[Chaz]

Bob,
Try casting your nymphs upstream, into thehead of the poolswhere the tree root wads are and the cut banks are. Next time we go out I'll try to show you what I mean.

 

[shademt]

i use nymphs in the winter more often than not. Some of my best days fishing have been in the winter, if there is not alot of snowmelt to drop the stream temps. I actually had an awesome day fishing a medium sized stream about a week ago. I probably caught and released 15 or so brookies and browns.Water was right at 40 or just a touch below. There are times in the winter, when the best time to fish is in the middle of the day. When water temps drop below 40 the suns warming effect can increase activity rather than shut it down. As far as How brookies feed you will find both brookies and browns are more agressive feeders on infertile mt streams. Unless there is alot of fishing pressure which can cause them to be tougher to catch. But as a rule they are more aggresive simply because they do not have the constant smorgasbord of food as in a fertile stream. In plain english...their almost always hungry.

 

[shademt]

as far as winter fishing . i probably fish as much ,or more in the winter. working construction gives me plenty of time off to fish during the winter. As of right now i am averaging a trout every half hr. On various streams from small mt streams to the little J , penns ect..All fishing with nymphs, wets and streamers.

 

[k-bob]

Thanks for all the advice and images. Ill try to put these ideas in to use. First thing I'll do is take a water temp. Yard casting was a good thing to do; the dehooked nymph casting went much better with a 7'6" 3w echo than a 7'6" st croix avid 2w. That was a good step, cause I am used to casting lightweight dry flies; fly casting with weight on the end of the leader has often felt strange to me before. Might as well try it in the yard before I drive and hike to a stream.

This will be something different to try, if I catch many fish at all, Ill assume I have found a good place to return to in less crazy weather.

 

[Hookerman]

7' 6" 5WT rod with a sensitive yet supple tip/taper. Can't find that with artificials (non-bamboo). Also, try sythetic silk line. Of course real silk line with a fresh mucillin rub is best but....that's alot of work and it don't last long (talking about performance, the line will outlast you).